Author Topic: Climate Change Catchment Thread  (Read 44546 times)

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Offline John Albert

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #900 on: September 10, 2019, 03:33:43 AM »
Interview with leader of Extinction Rebellion:

(click to show/hide)

Only a few minutes in but he's quite dire.  I like it!

A few minutes in, he sounds like an assertive activist. 15 minutes in, he turns into a real asshole and refuses to answer questions about some of his more outrageous tactics.

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #901 on: September 10, 2019, 01:18:16 PM »
Well, the questions were mostly loaded.  The interviewer is just some decorum golem there to flex Normalcy Bias and Status Quo Bias.  But the guest did a good job, I thought, of parrying most of it.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 01:31:24 PM by Soldier of FORTRAN »
If global warming is real then how come I just felt this chill down my spine?

Online Rai

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #902 on: September 15, 2019, 04:13:23 AM »
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ISTANBUL — Explosions and towering fireballs struck the heart of Saudi Arabia’s oil empire on Saturday in an apparent wave of drone attacks claimed by Yemen’s Houthi rebels. The blows knocked out more than half the kingdom’s oil output for days or more and threatened to drive up already high tensions between Iran and its foes in the Persian Gulf.
Link

When a bunch of North Yemeni rebels do more for climate than all the governments of the planet combined, ever.

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #903 on: September 15, 2019, 09:59:46 AM »
This article from Vice News, while absolutely not being denialist, argues against climate despair. An interesting read, and I think quite a different perspective from the dominant one here.

'Climate Despair' Is Making People Give Up on Life

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"Climate despair" has been a phrase used at least as far back as Eric Pooley's 2010 book, The Climate War: True Believers, Power Brokers, and the Fight to Save the Earth, but it's been in wide circulation for perhaps as little as two years. In more progressive Sweden, the term klimatångest has been popular since at least 2011 (the year a Wikipedia article with that name was created). In The Uninhabitable Earth, Wallace-Wells notes that the philosopher Wendy Lynne Lee calls this phenomenon "eco-nihilism," the Canadian politician and activist Stuart Parker prefers "climate nihilism," and others have tried out terms like "human futilitarianism."

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Experts say now is precisely the wrong time to greet doom with open arms. According to Andrew Dessler, professor of atmospheric sciences at Texas A&M University, certainty about human extinction is not accurate, nor is it "a particularly helpful point of view." Dessler explained to me in an email that "we are still (mostly) in control of our fate."

"This is painful," Lertzman said. "It's super painful to be a human being right now at this point in history." Nonetheless, she added, "We need to translate our concern—our despair, our anger our feelings—into action."

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Here's what the science has to say: Models that use the status quo—a.k.a. "not changing anything" as a baseline—show that we're headed off a cliff in terms of planetary habitability. But these models are probably overstating humanity's inaction. Entire (small) countries have no-bullshit plans to decarbonize quickly, and larger ones are making no-bullshit progress, just not nearly fast enough. Following these trends, it's possible to imagine humanity will achieve relative climate stability, even as the already-baked-in effects of our greenhouse gas emissions—some of them horrible—keep rolling out, perhaps for thousands of years. That would be better than never decarbonizing, and never achieving any semblance of stability ever again.

Dessler puts it this way: "I think it's clear that emissions will come down to zero and stabilize the climate sometime this century. But taking 50 years to do that will yield a different world than if we do it in 20 years. It's up to us to decide which of these worlds we want to live in."

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Humanity clearly needs to treat climate as an urgent problem, and as Wallace-Wells notes in Uninhabitable Earth, it's important to discuss extremely pessimistic possibilities as long as they are in fact possible, because "when we dismiss the worst-case possibilities, it distorts our sense of likelier outcomes, which we then regard as extreme scenarios we needn't plan so conscientiously for." But the intellectual thrust of climate despair takes this further, insisting that only the worst-case scenarios are worth serious consideration.

If I'm not mistaken, the paper Deep Adaptation has been promoted in this very thread. But it seems not to be very academically rigorous:

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But nothing compares to the intense viral bleakness of Deep Adaptation: A Map for Navigating Climate Tragedy, by Cumbria University professor Jem Bendell, a 2018 paper that Bendell self-published after an academic journal declined to publish it. The paper argues that total societal collapse is on its way, and describes life in the midst of that collapse with vivid sentences like, "You will fear being violently killed before starving to death." The paper was so powerful that people have credited it for sending them to therapy or quitting their jobs to live closer to nature.

But Deep Adaptation has been pilloried as an all-around shoddy piece of work by academic standards. I showed Deep Adaptation to the anthropologist Joseph Tainter, the foremost scholar I could find on the topic of societal collapse, and he told me this: "I find Bendell's paper to be simplistic and superficial. Since it is also alarmist, I will also call it irresponsible. After reviewing environmental trends related to climate change, he fails to demonstrate how these lead to 'starvation, destruction, migration, disease and war.' Climate change might lead to some or all of these things, but in such a paper one needs to demonstrate how." (In response to Tainter, Bendell told me his paper didn't explain the mechanism of collapse because it "was already long, given the summary of climate science and of processes of denial," and said the paper "was speaking to my professional field of sustainability management and not to other fields, such as those who study the history of societal collapses.")
"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #904 on: September 15, 2019, 02:35:36 PM »
If global warming is real then how come I just felt this chill down my spine?