Author Topic: Climate Change Catchment Thread  (Read 18066 times)

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Online Rai

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #240 on: October 10, 2018, 08:11:48 AM »
Big business wins again. Germany, along with the East-Central European autocracies where Germany produces its cars to make sure to pay as little as possible sabotaged the change of CO2 standards for cars and vans in the EU, making sure that the committed reduction stays well below what is actually needed to save the FUCKING PLANET.

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Negotiations between EU institutions on a new bill that will set CO2 standards for cars and vans until 2030 will begin on Wednesday afternoon (10 October) after EU environment ministers achieved a common position late on Tuesday evening.

The compromise deal was reached at a Council of the EU meeting in Luxembourg that began in the morning and wrapped up only shortly before midnight.

Austrian environment minister Elisabeth Kostinger, who chaired the ministerial meeting, said that the deal was supported by 20 of the EU's 28 member states.

Four were against, while four abstained, she said – although a source from one of the member states said there was no formal vote. The distribution of member states was rather an estimate made by Kostinger, the source added.

At a press conference, Kostinger said the council wanted cars to emit 35 percent less CO2 by 2030 compared to 2020 - as opposed to the original proposal of 30 percent from the European Commission.

The council maintained the commission proposal of 30 percent less CO2 emissions by 2030 for vans.

Those targets are considerably lower than what the European Parliament proposed last week - MEPs said that the 2030 target for both cars and vans should be 40 percent reduction.

Link

As a reminder, we need a 45% reduction of CO2 emmissions in 12 years, and a 100% reduction in 32 years.

Them shareholders must be jumping for joy and the CEOs may even get that meagre bonus that will allow them to buy next year's gilder private jet in time for the holidays.

Offline heyalison

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #241 on: October 10, 2018, 08:40:31 AM »
(It turns out capitalism was the Great Filter all along)

This is something I've thought for some time now. I don't see humans as being able to pull out of this, as evidenced by the global political slide rightward and the violent refusal to let go of profit-seeking as our species' primary motivation. It leads people to idealize exploiting capitalists like Musk and Bezos, and indulges in the magical thinking that technology will race in at the last minute and save us all. We lack the structures or the even the ability to engage in large-group changes, and there are too many cynical, greedy men manipulating the fears of the mob to undermine any attempt to fix that.

Offline gmalivuk

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #242 on: October 11, 2018, 08:15:57 AM »
The majority, who have no invested capital whatsoever, are assuredly not shareholders.

Don't the majority, in the West at least, at least have some moeny in mutual investment funds?
The West, even if you count everyone rather than just a simple majority, are still a small minority overall. And even then I doubt it.

(Plus for a lot of people even with investments, the amount they have invested is small enough that if wages go down but the market goes up, they lose money.)
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline Billzbub

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #243 on: October 15, 2018, 04:52:26 PM »
Me:  Climate change is real.
Dad: Nope.  Climategate proved that all climate scientists that measure the data faked it.
Me: If you think that, then is there any data that could ever prove to you it is real?
Dad:  Satellite data.
Me: <shows him satellite data>
Dad:  That was on the internet, so it is fake.
Me: <sighs>
Quote from: Steven Novella
gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #244 on: October 17, 2018, 10:54:06 PM »
The majority, who have no invested capital whatsoever, are assuredly not shareholders.

Don't the majority, in the West at least, at least have some moeny in mutual investment funds?

Can't speak for the majority, but I certainly don't.
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Online CarbShark

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #245 on: October 18, 2018, 11:56:21 AM »
The majority, who have no invested capital whatsoever, are assuredly not shareholders.

Don't the majority, in the West at least, at least have some moeny in mutual investment funds?

Can't speak for the majority, but I certainly don't.

No 401k, IRA or Pension? 

You better hope Democratic candidates start winning, because your life will one day depend on your Social Security checks if you don't start one of those soon.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just a guy who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline Billzbub

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #246 on: October 18, 2018, 02:57:33 PM »
I just had an epiphany on how to turn around climate change.

I believe that the political right in America is one of the fundamental drivers of climate change, and I believe that Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity (radio/tv personalities) have a very strong influence on the minds of the political right.

If just one of them, Hannity or Rush, could be convinced to do a deep dive on the science behind climate change, and they went on their show and presented the scientific truth, the political right would do a 180 right then and there.

Right now Hannity and Rush are the behind-the-scenes villains causing the problem, but one of them could become literally the savior of mankind by publically switching their stance.
Quote from: Steven Novella
gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor

Offline Gigabyte

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #247 on: October 18, 2018, 03:21:28 PM »
And then you wake up from the dream.
I don't understand some things

Offline gmalivuk

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #248 on: October 18, 2018, 03:34:20 PM »
The majority, who have no invested capital whatsoever, are assuredly not shareholders.

Don't the majority, in the West at least, at least have some moeny in mutual investment funds?

Can't speak for the majority, but I certainly don't.

No 401k, IRA or Pension? 

You better hope Democratic candidates start winning, because your life will one day depend on your Social Security checks if you don't start one of those soon.
Just because you're privileged enough to be able to put some away for later doesn't mean most people are.

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  In fact, the vast majority of Americans have under $1,000 saved and half of all Americans have nothing at all put away for retirement.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/13/heres-how-many-americans-have-nothing-at-all-saved-for-retirement.html
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Online CarbShark

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #249 on: October 18, 2018, 05:06:32 PM »
The majority, who have no invested capital whatsoever, are assuredly not shareholders.

Don't the majority, in the West at least, at least have some moeny in mutual investment funds?

Can't speak for the majority, but I certainly don't.

No 401k, IRA or Pension? 

You better hope Democratic candidates start winning, because your life will one day depend on your Social Security checks if you don't start one of those soon.
Just because you're privileged enough to be able to put some away for later doesn't mean most people are.

Quote
  In fact, the vast majority of Americans have under $1,000 saved and half of all Americans have nothing at all put away for retirement.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/13/heres-how-many-americans-have-nothing-at-all-saved-for-retirement.html

Then we better all start hoping that democratic candidates start winning, otherwise we're all fucked.  (Since when does working hard, and watching every penny equate with privilege?)
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just a guy who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline gmalivuk

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #250 on: October 18, 2018, 05:10:41 PM »
Since when does working hard, and watching every penny equate with privilege?
Because watching every penny doesn't magically grant you more pennies to save up. Do you seriously not get that millions of people can't afford to build savings?
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #251 on: October 18, 2018, 05:32:04 PM »
This conversation reminds of that line about, "If your tips for saving money start with assuming I spend $5 on lattes every day then I already have less money than you think I do."
If global warming is real then how come I just felt this chill down my spine?

Online CarbShark

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #252 on: October 18, 2018, 05:54:02 PM »
Since when does working hard, and watching every penny equate with privilege?
Because watching every penny doesn't magically grant you more pennies to save up. Do you seriously not get that millions of people can't afford to build savings?

Do you seriously not get that saving money is not a sign of privilege?

And, yes I do get that there are millions who can't afford to build savings. (I also think many of those millions make more and spend more than me and my family.)

Are you disagreeing with my point that they would be better served by electing Democratic leaders rather than Republicans, who are publicly stating they want to cut Social Security and Medicare?
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just a guy who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #253 on: October 18, 2018, 08:00:18 PM »
The majority, who have no invested capital whatsoever, are assuredly not shareholders.

Don't the majority, in the West at least, at least have some moeny in mutual investment funds?

Can't speak for the majority, but I certainly don't.

No 401k, IRA or Pension? 

You better hope Democratic candidates start winning, because your life will one day depend on your Social Security checks if you don't start one of those soon.

I don't know what 401k or IRA is, and there's no such thing as Social Security checks and I have no Democratic candidates in my electorate. I have the mandatory Australian Government superannuation, if that's what you mean by a mutual investment fund. I'm pretty sure it's not, but you might know better how the Australian finance market works than I do.
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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #254 on: October 18, 2018, 08:13:28 PM »
The majority, who have no invested capital whatsoever, are assuredly not shareholders.

Don't the majority, in the West at least, at least have some moeny in mutual investment funds?

Can't speak for the majority, but I certainly don't.

No 401k, IRA or Pension? 

You better hope Democratic candidates start winning, because your life will one day depend on your Social Security checks if you don't start one of those soon.

I don't know what 401k or IRA is, and there's no such thing as Social Security checks and I have no Democratic candidates in my electorate. I have the mandatory Australian Government superannuation, if that's what you mean by a mutual investment fund. I'm pretty sure it's not, but you might know better how the Australian finance market works than I do.

Tax-deferred retirement savings. 401(k) is American shorthand for "retirement fund" but typically is a pre-tax investment. IRA is an investment retirement account.  Mutual funds are an investment that is diversified. When you put in a dollar, that dollar buys a share in the fund, which in turn owns shares or other companies, bonds, and other investment vehicles.

I don't know how Democratic candidates winning would help you though, maybe Carbshark knows something about the DNC's plan for Australia that I don't.  ;D
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