Author Topic: Climate Change Catchment Thread  (Read 61449 times)

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Offline 2397

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #690 on: July 05, 2019, 03:20:24 AM »
People don't have to eat meat, especially if we can make it more readily replacable in diets. Reducing meat consumption is one of the easiest way to reduce land use, since it uses much more land per calorie.

As long as we can make it about fully giving up the land to carbon sequestration and nature preservation, rather than expand other farming or polluting activities.

https://apple.news/A23SveexGQRG7byBxGoaZhQ

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Last year, there were 484 official heat waves across India, up from 21 in 2010. During that period, more than 5,000 people died. This year's figures show little respite.
In June, Delhi hit temperatures of 48 degrees Celsius (118 Fahrenheit), the highest ever recorded in that month. West of the capital, Churu in Rajasthan nearly broke the country's heat record with a high of 50.6 Celsius (123 Fahrenheit)

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A signatory to the 2015 Paris Climate Agreement, the country has pledged to cuts its carbon emissions by 33% to 35% below 2005 levels by 2030.

Last month, Prime Minister Narendra Modi's administration announced plans to add 500 gigawatts of renewable energy to the country's power grid by 2030. By that year, renewable energy should account for at least 40% of India's installed power capacity. The country is also planting forests to help mop up carbon emissions.

Those seem like incompatible goals, given that their electricity consumption has already increased by well over 100% since 2005.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_India#Demand

That's a lot of forest to plant in a country that's also becoming too hot for humans to survive outdoors in.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 05:17:36 AM by 2397 »

Offline gmalivuk

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #691 on: July 05, 2019, 07:42:31 AM »
[citation needed]
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Offline PANTS!

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #692 on: July 05, 2019, 10:08:03 AM »
Probably closer to 3% net. Not much worse than grains and veggies. And people gotta eat.


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Not according to ever survey I have read. 

https://academic.oup.com/af/article/9/1/69/5173494

Once again you are just wrong here.  I expect you will now double down.
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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #693 on: July 05, 2019, 02:54:14 PM »
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'Biggest compliment yet': Greta Thunberg welcomes oil chief's 'greatest threat' label

Activists say comments by Opec head prove world opinion is turning against fossil fuels

Greta Thunberg and other climate activists have said it is a badge of honour that the head of the world’s most powerful oil cartel believes their campaign may be the “greatest threat” to the fossil fuel industry.

The criticism of striking students by the trillion-dollar Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (Opec) highlights the growing reputational concerns of oil companies as public protests intensify along with extreme weather.

Mohammed Barkindo, the secretary general of Opec, said there was a growing mass mobilisation of world opinion against oil, which was “beginning to … dictate policies and corporate decisions, including investment in the industry”.

He said the pressure was also being felt within the families of Opec officials because their own children “are asking us about their future because … they see their peers on the streets campaigning against this industry”.

Although he accused the campaigners of misleading people with unscientific arguments, the comments were welcomed by student and divestment campaigners as a sign the oil industry is worried it may be losing the battle for public opinion.

https://twitter.com/GretaThunberg/status/1146700304219553792
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 03:03:23 PM by Quetzalcoatl »
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Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Offline 2397

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #695 on: July 05, 2019, 04:27:57 PM »
I can't read that particular article, but apparently there were 7 in total who died in the crash. Maybe not all so undeserving of sympathy.

Also a "possible illness" and lack of flight plan which could make it sound like they were rushing out of there, though I don't know if helicopter is also how they got there in the first place. If more details are released later, I'm guessing it'll remain in the local news.

Offline Igor SMC

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #696 on: July 05, 2019, 09:15:23 PM »
Another fresh paper with new data... And again, we see the words "worse than previously thought"...   fuck.

"Knowledge is preferable to ignorance. Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable"

Offline werecow

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #697 on: July 06, 2019, 07:58:05 AM »
I think this belongs on this thread as well:



Orwell, eat your heart out.
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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #698 on: July 07, 2019, 02:42:24 PM »
Probably closer to 3% net. Not much worse than grains and veggies. And people gotta eat.


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From everything I have read, it is significantly more than 3%. And for the land used, meat, at least red meat, seems very inefficient. There might be a place for it, for example in grassland areas that can't be farmed, but the place for it is way smaller than its current place. At least that's my understanding.
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Offline lonely moa

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #699 on: July 07, 2019, 02:53:00 PM »
Nina Teicholtz (generally an food author and activist) pointed to this article: 


http://m.startribune.com/it-s-not-about-the-hamburgers/512276872/?fbclid=IwAR3TI_HH-aAFL1NT-kO0_TjRY9LIU_iDsKFueOMI82afCbLnOOTyIVpE-nE

Worth reading, CS.
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Online CarbShark

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #700 on: July 07, 2019, 04:04:25 PM »
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When you stick to the knowable, direct emissions, the climate burden of cattle fall away. The EPA estimates that 9% of all direct emissions in the U.S. are due to agriculture, compared with 20% from industry, 28% from electricity and 28% from transportation. Just 3.9% are due to livestock. That’s half the CO2 attributable to concrete.

Exactly


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Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Offline 2397

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #702 on: July 07, 2019, 05:36:35 PM »
Electricity and transportation are broader categories than livestock. It's not about either reducing emissions from transport or reducing meat consumption. If you reduce meat consumption you also reduce transport needs. Meat will always require more transportation than plants for human consumption, as long as the meat production relies on having extra feed that's grown elsewhere.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2019, 05:39:05 PM by 2397 »

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #703 on: July 07, 2019, 05:52:11 PM »
And yet we read:

- Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

- Huge reduction in meat-eating ‘essential’ to avoid climate breakdown

The studies those articles are based on are addressed in the article Lonely Moa linked to.

Even if you disagree, it's an interesting read.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, we're right, and the total contribution of animal food products to green house gasses is closer to 3% than 18%, does that change your mind about meat?

Would that tell you anything about those who are pushing the Abandon Meat to Save the Planet agenda?
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Offline CookieMustard

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Re: Climate Change Catchment Thread
« Reply #704 on: July 07, 2019, 06:06:44 PM »
Probably closer to 3% net. Not much worse than grains and veggies. And people gotta eat.

From everything I have read, it is significantly more than 3%.

Regarding this discrepancy between 3% or significantly more than 3% you have to pay attention to exactly what is being measured. The 3% probably refers to direct emissions.  When you include indirect emissions related to meat production (mainly from growing food for cattle and shipping the animals or the meat) you get amounts around 14% (iirc). You also get different amounts depending if you are talking about global emissions, or US emissions, or some other group of countries. Also, when people criticize the amount of meat produced it is not only based on gas emissions,  water use is also a big factor.