Author Topic: Episode #602  (Read 3974 times)

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Offline murraybiscuit

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Re: Episode #602
« Reply #60 on: January 27, 2017, 01:08:04 PM »
In last week's Who's That Noisy, Jay et al. spent some time wondering out loud about whistled languages, and hoped someone might write in to answer some of their questions. And someone did! Alas, my e-mail didn't make it onto the show. So my response won't have been entirely in vain, I thought I'd post the body of it here, for anyone who might have been interested in learning more. ;)
/snip

The whistling language topic reminded me of Dan Everett's research with the Pirahã people (a remote Amazonian tribe). Their fine-tuned use of pitch provides a meta-channel of communication absent from European languages, making the language really hard to learn for outsiders. Pirahã can be whistled, hummed, shouted or encoded in music; with each form being used in different contexts. Apparently humming & music encoding (melodics presumably) are used for communication with babies, and as a replacement for whispering.

I'd highly recommend Everett's book "Don't Sleep, there are Snakes", which chronicles his missionary work with the tribe spanning over a decade and how it impacted his personal life (eventually leading to his deconversion). The tribe is a rather unique anthropological case, having few, if any superstitions, stories of the afterlife or creation myths. Their concepts of time, direction and interrelationships within the tribe are all notably different to ours.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 01:11:09 PM by murraybiscuit »

Offline Gravity Allen

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Re: Episode #602
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2017, 06:18:10 AM »
Thanks to murraybiscuit above, I ran across yet more information to be added to the growing list of advantages that whistling has over spoken speech, at least when applied to long-distance communication (there are expressivity and intelligibility trade-offs).

For one, it looks like the human ear is especially sensitive to the frequencies that whistling tends to concentrate around (1000 to 3000 Hz); you can see in the equal-loudness contour that low-intensity sounds are going to be most detectable at these frequencies. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing this might relate to the resonant nature of the auditory canal, which seems to be optimized for enhancing sounds close to these frequencies. (That makes sense to me, given that's where a lot of the important information communicated in speech is found; this might be a just-so story, though, as I don't actually know much about the evolution of hearing.) Additionally, it appears the natural environment is generally free of high frequency background noise (except in high winds), meaning one achieves a high signal-to-noise ratio by pumping energy into these higher frequencies.

And in response to one of Jay's specific questions . . . well, I think I'll just quote the article: "[The] tongue retroflexed, one or two fingers introduced in the mouth, a blow concentrated at the junction between two fingers or the lower lip pulled while breathing in air are techniques used to reach high levels of power for long distance speaking. Each place has its favorite trend that depends on the most common use of the village and on the personal preferences of each whistler."

Offline Harry Black

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Re: Episode #602
« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2017, 07:32:06 AM »
I never started, but my brother did.  His jokey response to asking how to quit is "just don't have any more".  And from all appearances it was just that simple for him.

ETA: Both my grandfathers did pretty much the same thing, back in the 70s before anyone even was admitting for 100% certain that this was the thing to do.  My dad had a hell of a time with it but managed it in the late 90s.  My grandmother had an even worse time of it but managed it in the mid-00s.  As far as I know, my 6 year old has never in her life been within 20 feet of a person who was smoking (obvious exceptions such as adjacent cars excluded).
We know that certain drugs interact differently with different people.
I think its feasible that nicotene just isnt addictive to some people and likewise some people just find it easier to stop habitual behaviours.

I know my experience with prescription opiates was such that I embraced withdrawal to get away from them after a prolonged period of use, but Im sure others find them much more pleasurable.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #602
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2017, 11:52:45 AM »
Not really adding much but....I hated opiates, made me feel terrible and quit taking them within a few days.  I don't even think they were that effective as pain killers.  If everybody reacted to them the why I did, nobody would get addicted.  So, obviously, not everyone reacts like I do.


Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #602
« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2017, 12:16:28 PM »
Morphine was my friend during radiotherapy.  Not much else was going to relieve the pain of third degree burns in my throat (that's relieve, not remove).  I had no problem stopping.  Actually, I was quite keen to stop... so I could start shitting again.

I don't think addiction is as much a problem if the pain is overwhelming.
"Our minds are not quite designed to understand how the world works, but, rather, to get out of trouble rapidly an have progeny."  Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #602
« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2017, 04:31:40 PM »
Not really adding much but....I hated opiates, made me feel terrible and quit taking them within a few days.  I don't even think they were that effective as pain killers.  If everybody reacted to them the why I did, nobody would get addicted.  So, obviously, not everyone reacts like I do.

After my second TURP (prostate operation through a tube up the dick) the morphine was wonderful. After my third TURP the pain was so bad that even with morphine the pain was excruciating and I couldn't stop shivering.

After the surgery for my broken arm, the oxycodone was a life-saver, and really helped with the pain. It also made me feel good emotionally as well as physically. I knew I had to kick it, so I did, a week ahead of schedule. When the doctor told me it was time to ween myself off it he gave me a 6-week schedule, and I managed it in 5 weeks. But it was extremely difficult, and those five weeks of cutting back were hard. For about a month, the last two weeks I was on the oxy, and another two weeks, I smoked pot once most nights to help me sleep, and I think that helped. I used about 3/4 of the gram and haven't used it since.

I really like opiates, but I wouldn't use them again unless I was in serious pain, because the withdrawal is horrid.
Daniel
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: Episode #602
« Reply #66 on: January 29, 2017, 12:35:03 AM »
Morphine was my friend during radiotherapy.  Not much else was going to relieve the pain of third degree burns in my throat (that's relieve, not remove).  I had no problem stopping.  Actually, I was quite keen to stop... so I could start shitting again.

I don't think addiction is as much a problem if the pain is overwhelming.

^^^
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Offline gebobs

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Re: Episode #602
« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2017, 02:15:12 PM »
No one really teaches the history of science though. You pretty much have to be a scientist in a field, or deeply interested in a field to know facts like that from over 100 years ago. I find it incredibly unsurprising.

That's why it seemed surprising to me. It seems to me that all the rogues are "deeply interested" in AGW.
I fail to see your point. I have many interests that I am deeply invested in and almost everyday I learn something new about the history of them. Granted you aren't necessarily using your surprise as a pejorative the way Lonely Moa is.

Just pointing out that I think the Rogues fill one of your criteria (deep interest) enough to know about Arrhenius's seminal contributions to AGW theory. It's surprising to me, that's all. Maybe that fact isn't as well known as I thought.

Online Friendly Angel

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Re: Episode #602
« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2017, 02:26:13 PM »

I don't think addiction is as much a problem if the pain is overwhelming.

I've had Dilaudid and Norco for broken bones - didn't seem to have any recreational benefit at all... made me feel stupid - like I couldn't make a plan that involved more than one task.

My doctor said people who take them for chronic pain are at a much higher risk for addiction than short-term users.
Amend and resubmit.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #602
« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2017, 02:34:26 PM »
I've had Dilaudid and Norco for broken bones - didn't seem to have any recreational benefit at all... made me feel stupid - like I couldn't make a plan that involved more than one task.
That's exactly my feeling about oxy-codone.  Except even one task was a problem, and they didn't help the pain much. I think I'm probably lucky in that regard.


Offline werecow

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Re: Episode #602
« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2017, 05:31:19 PM »
Interview with James Randi; Forgotten Superheroes of Science: Dorothy Andersen; News Items: E-Waste, IBM Predicts Future Tech, Returning to the Moon, Two Trillion Galaxies; Who’s That Noisy; Science or Fiction

Two Trillion Galaxies

Does this alter the ratio of matter to dark matter to dark energy?

This is exactly what I wanted to know, but the answer appears to be no.

Quote
Mind you, just because we don’t see 90 percent of the galaxies in the Universe doesn’t mean this explains dark matter or anything like that. We know that’s not made of any kind of normal matter like the stuff that makes up stars, planets, you, and me. These unseen galaxies are extremely far away, and made of stars and gas and dust just like galaxies here are. It’s just that they’re faint.

And it doesn’t mean the Universe has 10 times more mass than we thought. The mass is the same, it’s just distributed differently than we thought. It’s like knowing there are 1 million people in a city, and finding out they live in 100,000 buildings when you thought they were only in 10,000. There are more buildings, but not more people.

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Offline werecow

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Re: Episode #602
« Reply #71 on: January 30, 2017, 06:38:40 PM »
I recall a New Scientist article from 2011 about how a huge amount of donated phones at the time were finding their way into the hands of hackers who were using forensic software to strip details such as address and card numbers from them.

That's partially why I have a defunct computer in a closet, a few low capacity HDDs in a box somewhere, along with a couple of phones, one with a broken screen. And otherwise make use of all my storage units in the newer computers. I'm too paranoid to get rid of anything with data on it. Some day I need to obtain the means to sufficiently destroy them.

Pro-tip: I screw open my old HDDs and use the platters as shiny neat coasters.

EDIT:

Re: smoking and addiction: I do think a lot of it has to do with attitude. I quit smoking a few years ago. I'd made several half-assed attempts before that time that all predictably failed, because I didn't really want to quit, I just felt like it's what I should do. The difference was that this last time, I actually really wanted to quit because I was having all kinds of stress-related health / anxiety problems and the smoking made them all worse. Once I'd made that decision, it wasn't really all that hard to stick with it, in spite of the highly annoying withdrawal symptoms*, because I am a really, really stubborn person.

* Super tense, tired, brainfog, mild depression, even more insomnia than usual, and of course the sense that you lost that thing you normally do to relax or just kill a few minutes.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 06:49:58 PM by werecow »
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #602
« Reply #72 on: January 31, 2017, 09:45:11 AM »
I've never smoked, but I was an alcoholic. From the time I decided that I really needed to quit, and really wanted to quit, it took me about five years before I had my last drink. (About 25 years later, I discovered that I am no longer an alcoholic --AA is wrong-- and if I have half a glass of beer, for the taste, I have no urge to drink more.)

For several years I smoked a lot of pot. Pot is not physically addictive, but it was hard for me to quit once I decided that I didn't want to go through life feeling muddle-brained.

But the really hard one was oxycodone: After taking it for (I think) about three months, the physical withdrawal was extremely harsh. I was highly motivated to get off it as soon as I could, but I was able only to cut back by about one tablet per day each week. I.e. 5 per day for a week, then 4 per day the following week, etc. And even that was very difficult and required intense motivation. But while I was taking it, it was very effective for the pain, which had been excruciating, and it made me feel really good when I was taking enough to fully counteract the pain.

I once knew a guy who had kicked a heroin habit, but said he could not quit smoking. That, he said, was just too hard.
Daniel
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