Author Topic: Alex Jones / Info Wars  (Read 27588 times)

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Offline Pdb

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #75 on: August 04, 2017, 05:45:04 AM »
Here he is talking about the "Bill Clinton Rape Whistles" that he sells referring to the John Oliver bit. He says that the John Oliver segment will advertise enough for him to sell the excess stock.


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Online Desert Fox

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #76 on: August 04, 2017, 06:15:31 AM »
I doubt any of the supplements are useful - in the same way that the Porsche usb is probably no better than a cheap alternative. People are paying a premium to eat like Gwyneth or feel like Alex Jones.

Alex Jones is an entertaining and polarising figure - I think he has as much a right to promote his views as any mainstream host or presenter. John Oliver gets his money from HBO - Alex Jones makes money from direct marketing and he is probably much richer than John Oliver. The most damning part was that AJ wears a Rolex and mentioned that he doesn't care about material wealth (he was lying - Alex Jones does hours of unprepared speeches regularly, he is going to say some oddball things).

Because some of his audience is not quite balanced, what Alex Jones does is quite dangerous. He rallies them up to the point where they are dangerous. Look at the Comet Ping Pong Shooting?
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Offline Pdb

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #77 on: August 04, 2017, 06:37:10 AM »
Because some of his audience is not quite balanced, what Alex Jones does is quite dangerous. He rallies them up to the point where they are dangerous. Look at the Comet Ping Pong Shooting?

Alex Jones doesn't have the monopoly on nutters in his audience - the Fresno shooter was a CNN and MSNBC fan and used their videos as justification for his madness.

This comes down to freedom of expression, Alex Jones can express his ideas and then people that disagree with him can refute him. Youtube democratises arguments - if someone can refute him and be entertaining then they could garner views. The only other solution would be censorship of ideas that are against the mainstream. 
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Offline John Albert

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #78 on: August 04, 2017, 10:13:09 AM »
Alex Jones doesn't have the monopoly on nutters in his audience - the Fresno shooter was a CNN and MSNBC fan and used their videos as justification for his madness.

Alex Jones doesn't have a monopoly on crazy people, but it's the irrational things he says and his furious delivery that incite craziness.

Like Rush Limbaugh, Jones runs a fake news outlet that presents hysterical nonsense as facts. Making up and spreading outrageous lies incurs responsibility for the consequences when people act on the false information you gave them. It's disingenuous to equate professional liars like Jones and Limbaugh with legitimate news outlets that do real journalism, validate their sources, and fact check their material.


This comes down to freedom of expression, Alex Jones can express his ideas and then people that disagree with him can refute him. Youtube democratises arguments [...] The only other solution would be censorship of ideas that are against the mainstream.

Nobody is arguing that Alex Jones doesn't have the right or the freedom to say the things he says. But when people abuse their freedoms in ways that cause widespread harm, those freedoms eventually get taken away from everybody. Outrageous fake news pundits like Alex Jones might actually represent a threat to our 1st Amendment rights.

It doesn't come down to "freedom." What it really comes down to is civic responsibility, a central component of life in a civilized society that many libertarians seem to pretend doesn't exist.


if someone can refute him and be entertaining then they could garner views.

This is not the kind of problem that is likely to be magically solved by the "free market." Debunking the ravings of a high-profile public liar with a large and expensive media presence is always going to be far more difficult (and boring) than the rabble rouser himself gish-galloping numerous lies into every rant. Let alone the challenge of "being entertaining" while doing it. When your entire shtick is piggybacked on the careers of more famous public figures, you'll always be riding the latest wave of bullshit, never truly able to get ahead of the curve. Which is not to say that there's nothing to be gained in doing so, but it's highly unlikely that anyone's going to come along and simply mock Alex Jones out of existence.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 10:03:19 AM by John Albert »

Offline Belgarath

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #79 on: August 04, 2017, 12:09:59 PM »
Alex Jones is lying to people to get them to buy his stupid shit.  He's a horrible human piece of garbage for doing so.  He is playing on the conspiracy crowd in order to enrich himself and for that he's repulsive.  Why is it that ALL of these people with a megaphone are ALWAYS selling something along with their conspiracy bullshit.

And PDBHH you should feel like shit for making excuses for him.  He's not an innocent actor selling stupid shit.

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Online Harry Black

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #80 on: August 04, 2017, 12:35:20 PM »
The Porsche analogy doesnt work because people who buy it know they are paying for the brand but that they will get a usb device that works.
Alex Jones sells things inflated under his brand but they also dont work and he knows it.
He also, y'know, propagates dangerous lies with real world impact such as the Sandy Hook conspiracy and pizzagate.

I would be very surprised if PDB88 believes the stuff they say  but we will never know and it doesnt really matter. Its a rare case of sunlight being effective in demonstrating absurdity.

Offline Pdb

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #81 on: August 04, 2017, 11:14:05 PM »
Alex Jones sells water filters and supplements. They are likely as effective as other brands and he is open about it funding his operation.

It is a fairly unusual method but it cuts out the need for YouTube monetisation or 3rd party ads that will pull support given controversies.

Alex Jones is not a news presenter, he is clearly expressing an opinion. He has been more accurate in his predictions about Trump in the last 2 years than most others.

I find him entertaining with some interesting viewpoints - he uses clickbait titles and acts insane at times which is not helpful, however, it does not mean that the social contract is destroyed when Alex Jones rips off his shirt and mock worships Hillary.

The pearl clutching attitude to AJ reminds me of the scare from hip hop or metal by the usual wowsers.
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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #82 on: August 04, 2017, 11:16:24 PM »
Here he seems to be going on an anti-vax rant
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #83 on: August 05, 2017, 03:20:02 AM »
"as effective as other brands" is a fun way of glossing over the stuff that's not at all effective or the lies used to sell it. Defending Alex Jones though, that's a new one.
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Offline Pdb

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #84 on: August 06, 2017, 06:57:30 AM »
New Alex Jones folk music:
(click to show/hide)

Alex Jones is a master at self promotion and was instrumental in getting Trump elected - it's hard to deal with him because attacks are seen as legitimisation, ignoring him is seen as silencing his views and if you try to mock him.. oh boy... he mocks himself more than anyone else - he'll probably just turn it into a competition:

« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 07:09:25 AM by Pdb88 »
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Online Desert Fox

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #85 on: August 06, 2017, 07:37:34 AM »
There is something you don't understand. While a lot of electrons have been spilled over politics, most of the posters here are concerned about more about politics.

Whether Alex Jones was (or was not) instrumental with Trump win is immaterial. We care about a skepticism driven lifestyle. The evidence is clear that anthropogenic global warming is real and something needs to be done to mitigate it. It is clear that vaccines save lives.

Alex Jones sells junk that does not work. He is a fear monger combined with a snake oil salesman. Maybe in some cases he is deceived himself but with at least some of the stuff he sells, he has to know he is lying to his audience. Outside of politics, Alex Jones is a perfectly valid target for skepticism.
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
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Offline Pdb

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #86 on: August 06, 2017, 07:56:44 AM »
There is something you don't understand. While a lot of electrons have been spilled over politics, most of the posters here are concerned about more about politics.

Whether Alex Jones was (or was not) instrumental with Trump win is immaterial. We care about a skepticism driven lifestyle. The evidence is clear that anthropogenic global warming is real and something needs to be done to mitigate it. It is clear that vaccines save lives.

Alex Jones sells junk that does not work. He is a fear monger combined with a snake oil salesman. Maybe in some cases he is deceived himself but with at least some of the stuff he sells, he has to know he is lying to his audience. Outside of politics, Alex Jones is a perfectly valid target for skepticism.

Alex Jones is certainly a valid target and he certainly airs ideas that are misleading and false.

As far as AGW and vaccines he seems to be voicing concerns about infringing on freedom - government mandates, multilateral agreements, world government etc. this is his worldview being against the federal government getting involved with the individual.

I doubt Alex Jones says that there is no AGW or benefits from vaccines. He does move outside the mainstream views on those two ideas and that is disturbing as he may be causing harm, if he is doing it just to sell products and has no conviction. My take is that he does have a sincere conviction but exaggerates and uses novel presentation techniques and uses his platform to sell water filters and supplements - he is also clear about using the funds to help promote his ideas.

I watch car Youtube channels that sell proprietary car care or performance goods that express opinions about AGW that dismiss it - Top Gear and The Grand Tour make global warming jokes regularly, they also sell merchandise.

This is a typical segment:

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #87 on: August 06, 2017, 08:13:07 AM »
In the first minute of the video I posted, Alex Jones said that polio shots are used to paralyze kids. That is utter bullshit. Whether he, or Jenny McCarthy, believe the bullshit they spew, it is bullshit that we are going to call them on. If either one causes kids not to get them MMR vaccine (or more likely in his case an old person not getting their flu vaccine), and somebody dies, he is responsible for killing somebody.

Just as companies  are not allowed to dump raw industrial waste in rivers, society has the collective right to try to mitigate global warming. I like personal freedom too but when it actively harms other people or society in general, there is the collective right to stop that activity.

Checking out InfoWars, there are videos where Alex Jones argues that global warming is a complete and utter fraud. It certainly seems like he is arguing that global warming is not real.

Yes, he has the right to do what he is doing, but I also have the right to call him a garbage human being.
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #88 on: August 06, 2017, 08:26:05 AM »
Yep. And now we're providing a bunch of SEO for Jones by allowing a conspiracy-apologist to post all his videos. Yay.

I submit this thread (among so many others) as a prime example of why letting someone shit all over your platform in the name of "debate" or "discussion" is not effective.
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Offline Pdb

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #89 on: August 06, 2017, 08:45:21 AM »
In the first minute of the video I posted, Alex Jones said that polio shots are used to paralyze kids. That is utter bullshit. Whether he, or Jenny McCarthy, believe the bullshit they spew, it is bullshit that we are going to call them on. If either one causes kids not to get them MMR vaccine (or more likely in his case an old person not getting their flu vaccine), and somebody dies, he is responsible for killing somebody.

Just as companies  are not allowed to dump raw industrial waste in rivers, society has the collective right to try to mitigate global warming. I like personal freedom too but when it actively harms other people or society in general, there is the collective right to stop that activity.

Checking out InfoWars, there are videos where Alex Jones argues that global warming is a complete and utter fraud. It certainly seems like he is arguing that global warming is not real.

Yes, he has the right to do what he is doing, but I also have the right to call him a garbage human being.

As a matter of being factual, more people are paralysed by the polio vaccine than by polio (because the polio vaccine contains a live strain of polio)
http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/06/28/534403083/mutant-strains-of-polio-vaccine-now-cause-more-paralysis-than-wild-polio

It should be up to the individual to decide if they are willing to take the chance. In areas with large polio outbreaks (or recent memories of outbreaks) I'm sure people will take the vaccine readily, when there is less chance of the disease and real (although low probability) side-effects, I would say it is the choice of the individual rather than the government.

We live in a probabilistic world and healthcare and pharmaceuticals is certainly based on costs and benefits and expected outcomes. In Australia, we have government payments cut and children not allowed in childcare or preschools if they are not sufficiently vaccinated, which I view as a reasonable compromise. Nobody should be compelled to take a flu vaccine or an NMR vaccine. It is much more problematic when it is the rights of a baby or young child as opposed to an adult not getting the flu vaccine but I am still on the side of the parent making an informed decision (although they should speak to their doctor rather than believe Alex Jones).

Yep. And now we're providing a bunch of SEO for Jones by allowing a conspiracy-apologist to post all his videos. Yay.

I submit this thread (among so many others) as a prime example of why letting someone shit all over your platform in the name of "debate" or "discussion" is not effective.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. If you have objections to Alex Jones then discuss your concerns, I think attacking Jones for his peddling of low quality goods is a very effective tool  much better than just saying he thinks that frogs are turning gay, seeing as there is feminisation of frogs occurring:
http://www.pnas.org/content/107/10/4612.full
Quote
The herbicide atrazine is one of the most commonly applied pesticides in the world. As a result, atrazine is the most commonly detected pesticide contaminant of ground, surface, and drinking water. Atrazine is also a potent endocrine disruptor that is active at low, ecologically relevant concentrations. Previous studies showed that atrazine adversely affects amphibian larval development. The present study demonstrates the reproductive consequences of atrazine exposure in adult amphibians. Atrazine-exposed males were both demasculinized (chemically castrated) and completely feminized as adults. Ten percent of the exposed genetic males developed into functional females that copulated with unexposed males and produced viable eggs. Atrazine-exposed males suffered from depressed testosterone, decreased breeding gland size, demasculinized/feminized laryngeal development, suppressed mating behavior, reduced spermatogenesis, and decreased fertility. These data are consistent with effects of atrazine observed in other vertebrate classes. The present findings exemplify the role that atrazine and other endocrine-disrupting pesticides likely play in global amphibian declines.
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