Author Topic: Alex Jones / Info Wars  (Read 27835 times)

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Offline Desert Fox

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #90 on: August 06, 2017, 09:01:44 AM »
As a matter of being factual, more people are paralysed by the polio vaccine than by polio (because the polio vaccine contains a live strain of polio)
http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/06/28/534403083/mutant-strains-of-polio-vaccine-now-cause-more-paralysis-than-wild-polio

It should be up to the individual to decide if they are willing to take the chance. In areas with large polio outbreaks (or recent memories of outbreaks) I'm sure people will take the vaccine readily, when there is less chance of the disease and real (although low probability) side-effects, I would say it is the choice of the individual rather than the government.

Did you read the article? It states that the version given in the developed world is the dead version, not the attenuated live version. It tend to happen in war torn areas where the health care system has collapsed.  In addition, the WHO is trying to replace the live version with the dead version. I am also almost positive that I have seen Alex Jones speak against the WHO, which is trying to solve the problem.

Might want to watch what you post in the future because somebody might actually read the article.
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Offline Harry Black

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #91 on: August 06, 2017, 09:19:22 AM »
Quote
Sunlight is the best disinfectant
Citation needed.
So now we are into actual anti vax rhetoric.
I have been falling off the 'dont feed the trolls' wagon of late and while it was fun, I need to get back on.

Offline Pdb

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #92 on: August 06, 2017, 09:30:03 AM »
As a matter of being factual, more people are paralysed by the polio vaccine than by polio (because the polio vaccine contains a live strain of polio)
http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/06/28/534403083/mutant-strains-of-polio-vaccine-now-cause-more-paralysis-than-wild-polio

It should be up to the individual to decide if they are willing to take the chance. In areas with large polio outbreaks (or recent memories of outbreaks) I'm sure people will take the vaccine readily, when there is less chance of the disease and real (although low probability) side-effects, I would say it is the choice of the individual rather than the government.

Did you read the article? It states that the version given in the developed world is the dead version, not the attenuated live version. It tend to happen in war torn areas where the health care system has collapsed.  In addition, the WHO is trying to replace the live version with the dead version. I am also almost positive that I have seen Alex Jones speak against the WHO, which is trying to solve the problem.

Might want to watch what you post in the future because somebody might actually read the article.

The claim that Alex Jones made about paralysis being caused by a Polio virus is true, in fact the number of cases of paralysis exceed the cases of Polio paralysis. I'm sure Alex Jones also has suspicions about WHO.

https://www.infowars.com/bill-gates-chelsea-clinton-predict-global-bio-terrorist-pandemic/

Quote
The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is listed as a member of the World Health Organization (WHO).
Remember, as outlined in Bill Clinton’s book, his foundation and others like it are the ones calling for better obedience from organizations like WHO.
If the chips fall, it’s the foundations and trust funds that want to be the ones sitting on top.
In fact, an out-of-control pandemic might be the crisis of choice for the global elite.
Beyond a large death count, an out-of-control virus spreading worldwide could trigger the U.N. to impose their International Health Regulations, or IHR, which intends to manage the world’s response to a global outbreak of a deadly pathogen.
In early 2017, the Oxford Press released, “Governing Global Health: Who Runs The World and Why” by – who would have guessed it – Chelsea Clinton and co-authored by Devi Sridhar.
The book discusses the current global model of principal/agent theory, or Public Private Partnerships funding and managing a coordinated response of a worldwide pandemic and what is needed to improve this model.

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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #93 on: August 06, 2017, 10:42:39 AM »
Nope. Facts, like math, onl;y count if you do the work properly. You don't get partial credit for throwing a bunch of shit at the wall and occasionally smashing a fly, because you've still covered the wall with shit.

Too bad Clunn's not here to see his believed right wing skeptics in action.
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Offline Desert Fox

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #94 on: August 06, 2017, 11:26:27 AM »
As a matter of being factual, more people are paralysed by the polio vaccine than by polio (because the polio vaccine contains a live strain of polio)
http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/06/28/534403083/mutant-strains-of-polio-vaccine-now-cause-more-paralysis-than-wild-polio

It should be up to the individual to decide if they are willing to take the chance. In areas with large polio outbreaks (or recent memories of outbreaks) I'm sure people will take the vaccine readily, when there is less chance of the disease and real (although low probability) side-effects, I would say it is the choice of the individual rather than the government.

Did you read the article? It states that the version given in the developed world is the dead version, not the attenuated live version. It tend to happen in war torn areas where the health care system has collapsed.  In addition, the WHO is trying to replace the live version with the dead version. I am also almost positive that I have seen Alex Jones speak against the WHO, which is trying to solve the problem.

Might want to watch what you post in the future because somebody might actually read the article.

The claim that Alex Jones made about paralysis being caused by a Polio virus is true, in fact the number of cases of paralysis exceed the cases of Polio paralysis. I'm sure Alex Jones also has suspicions about WHO.

https://www.infowars.com/bill-gates-chelsea-clinton-predict-global-bio-terrorist-pandemic/

Quote
The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is listed as a member of the World Health Organization (WHO).
Remember, as outlined in Bill Clinton’s book, his foundation and others like it are the ones calling for better obedience from organizations like WHO.
If the chips fall, it’s the foundations and trust funds that want to be the ones sitting on top.
In fact, an out-of-control pandemic might be the crisis of choice for the global elite.
Beyond a large death count, an out-of-control virus spreading worldwide could trigger the U.N. to impose their International Health Regulations, or IHR, which intends to manage the world’s response to a global outbreak of a deadly pathogen.
In early 2017, the Oxford Press released, “Governing Global Health: Who Runs The World and Why” by – who would have guessed it – Chelsea Clinton and co-authored by Devi Sridhar.
The book discusses the current global model of principal/agent theory, or Public Private Partnerships funding and managing a coordinated response of a worldwide pandemic and what is needed to improve this model.

Trying to take people who genuinely care and try to twist it into something evil. . . . That is sick
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Offline John Albert

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #95 on: August 06, 2017, 12:38:22 PM »
Alex Jones [...] was instrumental in getting Trump elected

Evidence? (besides Alex Jones' own empty braggadocio)


it's hard to deal with him because attacks are seen as legitimisation, ignoring him is seen as silencing his views

WUT

Pretty sure very few people outside of the alt-right and conspiracy nutjobs actually take Alex Jones seriously.

Offline werecow

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #96 on: August 06, 2017, 09:14:02 PM »
As a matter of being factual, more people are paralysed by the polio vaccine than by polio (because the polio vaccine contains a live strain of polio)
http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2017/06/28/534403083/mutant-strains-of-polio-vaccine-now-cause-more-paralysis-than-wild-polio

It should be up to the individual to decide if they are willing to take the chance. In areas with large polio outbreaks (or recent memories of outbreaks) I'm sure people will take the vaccine readily, when there is less chance of the disease and real (although low probability) side-effects, I would say it is the choice of the individual rather than the government.

Did you read the article? It states that the version given in the developed world is the dead version, not the attenuated live version. It tend to happen in war torn areas where the health care system has collapsed.  In addition, the WHO is trying to replace the live version with the dead version. I am also almost positive that I have seen Alex Jones speak against the WHO, which is trying to solve the problem.

Might want to watch what you post in the future because somebody might actually read the article.

The claim that Alex Jones made about paralysis being caused by a Polio virus is true, in fact the number of cases of paralysis exceed the cases of Polio paralysis.

Really dude? This is only true because the number of people paralyzed by polio has declined massively (to the point of it nearly going extinct) because people are being vaccinated. That makes it a misleading argument at best. Why anyone would want to defend this kind of intellectual fecal matter is beyond me.

But then, maybe I'm just biased against poor old misunderstood wild strain polio because my aunt has post polio syndrome and is in the pocket of big polio-vax volunteers to raise awareness of this illness and it's effects.

But yes, by all means, lets encourage people to stop vaccinating their kids against one of the worst diseases we know of because there's a miniscule chance that they'll have an adverse reaction to one outdated version of the vaccine that is about to eradicate it - again; we've been here before, if you'll recall, with the main difference being that the anti vaxers of the day were mostly located outside the western world (particularly in Nigeria). Still, what a great legacy that must be for them.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 09:38:00 PM by werecow »
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Offline Pdb

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #97 on: August 06, 2017, 10:02:53 PM »
My point was that if you want to discuss Alex Jones' views and call him out on being factually incorrect "Polio virus causes paralysis" then be clear in the criticism. Nobody is pro-Polio and the majority of the time Alex Jones is railing against globalists and world government - he is going to be taking a negative view on the UN, WHO etc. and he is also suspicious of philanthropists that look at health projects.

I would say that there are shortcomings to a centralised approach and if there is a failure (e.g. vaccine that is contaminated) then there will be huge ripple effects throughout the world. It is essentially a federalist argument applied to the world. There is also a fear that a coalition of governments or an NGO that controls governments will actually negatively effect trade and innovation.

I see Alex Jones as a balance to mainstream media and think he is an entertaining and interesting presenter of contrarian views.

Vaccines are the best method of improving quality of life and I'm a strong supporter of promoting vaccination but I'm also open to hear criticisms of how it is applied in the world.


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Offline Pdb

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #98 on: August 06, 2017, 10:14:17 PM »
Alex Jones [...] was instrumental in getting Trump elected

Evidence? (besides Alex Jones' own empty braggadocio)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/alex-jones-conspiracy-donald-trump-us-election-infowars-prisonplanet-a7429461.html
Quote
As the campaign progressed, Jones became more and more of a presence. He marketed “Hillary for Prison” T-shirts, which became wildly popular. Stone recalls Trump remarking to him that he liked seeing so many of the shirts in his rally audiences. Clinton took notice. In late August, during a stump speech in Reno, Nevada, Clinton dismissed Trump’s attacks on her health as “fever dreams”. “It’s what happens when you listen to the radio host Alex Jones, who claims that 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombings were inside jobs,” Clinton declared. She noted that Trump had told the radio host: “Your reputation is amazing, I will not let you down.”

Jones was now, officially, a campaign issue. In response, he does what he always does: he went ballistic, blasting Clinton for months. In October, he said to his audience, “I’m told there’s a rotten smell around Hillary, folks, I’ve been told this by high-up folks. Obama and Hillary both smell like sulphur.”

http://www.salon.com/2017/03/09/the-alex-jones-influence-trumps-deep-state-fears-come-from-his-conspiracy-theorist-ally-and-adviser_partner/

Quote
Even Jones seemed amazed to hear Trump speaking about his crank beliefs on the national stage. He told his audience it was “amazing” and “surreal to talk about issues here on air and then word-for-word hear [Donald] Trump say it two days later.”

The mind-meld was cemented with Trump’s speech accepting the Republican nomination as he declared war on “globalism” — the overarching idea, steeped in anti-Semitism and which Jones has promoted for decades, of a vast conspiracy of wealthy, powerful “globalists” who are the hidden, invisible hands behind world events and who manipulate them in service of accumulating personal power and wealth.

The two men remained in synchronicity with each other as the campaign progressed, with Jones pushing out conspiracies (amplified by fellow conspiracy theorist Matt Drudge at his highly trafficked Drudge Report), that were echoed by Trump on the presidential campaign trail.

If you want to hear something really out there - watch Alex Jones on the Joe Rogan experience:
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 10:39:12 PM by Pdb88 »
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Offline Sawyer

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #99 on: August 06, 2017, 11:14:34 PM »
My point was that if you want to discuss Alex Jones' views and call him out on being factually incorrect "Polio virus causes paralysis" then be clear in the criticism. Nobody is pro-Polio and the majority of the time Alex Jones is railing against globalists and world government - he is going to be taking a negative view on the UN, WHO etc. and he is also suspicious of philanthropists that look at health projects.

I would say that there are shortcomings to a centralised approach and if there is a failure (e.g. vaccine that is contaminated) then there will be huge ripple effects throughout the world. It is essentially a federalist argument applied to the world. There is also a fear that a coalition of governments or an NGO that controls governments will actually negatively effect trade and innovation.

I see Alex Jones as a balance to mainstream media and think he is an entertaining and interesting presenter of contrarian views.

Vaccines are the best method of improving quality of life and I'm a strong supporter of promoting vaccination but I'm also open to hear criticisms of how it is applied in the world.

Balance?  Real scientists and journalists have been talking about the problems of using OPV versus IPV for like 20 years.  And once you start understanding the science, it's obvious that some level of centralized planning is going to be needed to solve the problem because of the underlying strengths and weaknesses of each vaccine.  Throwing out random information about OPV shedding live polio does absolutely nothing for people, because it's just one piece of a very complex puzzle.   The idea that conspiracy mongers like Jones are helping at all is ludicrous.  Is there no level of garbage you won't defend in your quest to besmirch "mainstream" news, PDB?

Free virology course lectures from someone who actually knows a little something about polio:


Coursera and EdX have good epidemiology courses too.

Offline werecow

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #100 on: August 07, 2017, 05:18:03 AM »
Free virology course lectures from someone who actually knows a little something about polio:

Ooh! Ooh! Been looking for that kind of course. Totally stealing all the lectures.

Mooohn!

Offline Desert Fox

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #101 on: August 07, 2017, 05:19:13 AM »
Alex Jones doesn't care about the nuance if he can fear monger to sell his junk

I was reading a Vox article and many mostly rational seem to listen to Alex Jones and they state that 90% is bullshit but there is 10% that has value. Even if this is really the case, that noise to single ratio is just way to high, even if a person is concerned about the mainstream media and bias.
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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #102 on: August 07, 2017, 06:23:16 AM »
I mean, even the supposed truth is still wrong. "Some polio vaccines can cause paralysis in rare cases and the WHO is working on it" is so far removed from "They are using vaccines to paralyze your children." It's like calling in a bomb threat to clear out the lunchroom for fumigation.
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Offline John Albert

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #103 on: August 07, 2017, 01:40:22 PM »
I see Alex Jones as a balance to mainstream media

Alex Jones being a "balance" to mainstream media is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

It's like saying abortion clinic bombers are a "balanced" response to Roe v. Wade.

It's like drilling a hole in your head to cure a headache as a "balance" to taking an aspirin.

Offline Desert Fox

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #104 on: August 07, 2017, 01:54:54 PM »
I mean, even the supposed truth is still wrong. "Some polio vaccines can cause paralysis in rare cases and the WHO is working on it" is so far removed from "They are using vaccines to paralyze your children." It's like calling in a bomb threat to clear out the lunchroom for fumigation.

Good way to put it actually.

As well, a US (or developed world) nurse will never run across the problem personally unless they are working in places where health care has broken down. As such, the best that happened is that he read an article and made up bullshit around it and more likely, in my opinion, he made some crap up that somebody can point to something in reality that has a passing relationship (if you keep your eyes closed) 
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

 

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