Author Topic: Alex Jones / Info Wars  (Read 27824 times)

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Offline John Albert

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #360 on: June 19, 2019, 06:32:49 AM »
Quote
Sandy Hook Victim's Father Wins Defamation Suit, Alex Jones Sanctioned

Vanessa Romo | June 18, 201910:04 PM ET

Leonard Pozner, whose 6-year-old son was killed in the 2012 massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School, has been battling against conspiracy theorists for years, and on Tuesday he scored a victory against deniers who claimed the shooting that left 20 first grade children dead never happened.

A Wisconsin judge issued a summary judgment in favor of Pozner in a defamation lawsuit against the authors of a book called Nobody Died at Sandy Hook, a 400-page book purporting a series of false claims, including ideas that the mass shooting was a FEMA drill to promote gun control and that the grieving father had fabricated his son Noah's death certificate, which is a crime in Connecticut.

"Mr. Pozner has sought for years to try to get these conspiracy theorists to understand that his son really was a person and that his son really did die and as a last resort we initiated this defamation case," Pozner's lawyer, Jake Zimmerman told NPR.

The lawsuit focused narrowly on the claim by James Fetzer and Mike Palecek that Pozner had forged or faked the death certificate, though it also alluded to other convoluted theories advanced by Fetzer on his blog, including the theory that Noah was not Pozner's son.
Whole story: https://www.npr.org/2019/06/18/733880866/sandy-hook-victims-father-wins-defamation-suit-alex-jones-sanctioned

Offline PANTS!

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #361 on: June 19, 2019, 07:24:39 AM »
Not to blame anybody in particular, but I think it's quite possible that some ill-intentioned actor sent the stuff to Infowars for the purpose of framing Alex. If the contraband had originated in-house, I imagine the FBI would have found some evidence of that and made the appropriate arrests.

The way Alex constantly harps on themes of child rape and blood libel on his show, he's practically begging for it.

I thought the child or material was found in items turned over to the prosecution as part of discovery. In which case it would be Alex Jones trying to put child pronography in two prosecution teams hands. Or at least that's the way I thought this was headed.
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #362 on: June 19, 2019, 10:05:57 AM »
Civil case, so there's no prosecution.  You are correct that the images were in the metadata turned over to the plaintiffs, however.  The bizarre claim seems to be that the plaintiff’s counsel added the images to the files after they were turned over, then reported it to the FBI.  Of course, that could easily be checked by looking at the data on the server.

And the response is bizarre and theatrical—and probably intentionally so.  Nobody—plaintiff’s counsel or FBI—has suggested that Jones or any of his employees knowingly possessed or distributed the materials. Jones is being considered a victim in the investigation (though plaintiff’s counsel is criticizing defense counsel for failing to review the materials at all before sending them).  The whole thing would have affected the trial in little or no way if he had not gone off the deep end threatening and libeling the plaintiff’s counsel.  But of course insane person is his whole brand.
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #364 on: June 20, 2019, 12:51:37 AM »
Whole story: https://www.npr.org/2019/06/18/733880866/sandy-hook-victims-father-wins-defamation-suit-alex-jones-sanctioned

"Sanctioned"? What does that mean?

He’s been denied the opportunity to submit special motions for dismissal and is being required to pay the legal expenses of the plaintiff’s in responding to this issue (I believe both the child pornography and the outburst).
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 01:01:57 AM by The Latinist »
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Offline John Albert

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #365 on: June 20, 2019, 03:53:55 PM »
Civil case, so there's no prosecution.  You are correct that the images were in the metadata turned over to the plaintiffs, however.  The bizarre claim seems to be that the plaintiff’s counsel added the images to the files after they were turned over, then reported it to the FBI.  Of course, that could easily be checked by looking at the data on the server.

And the response is bizarre and theatrical—and probably intentionally so.  Nobody—plaintiff’s counsel or FBI—has suggested that Jones or any of his employees knowingly possessed or distributed the materials. Jones is being considered a victim in the investigation (though plaintiff’s counsel is criticizing defense counsel for failing to review the materials at all before sending them).  The whole thing would have affected the trial in little or no way if he had not gone off the deep end threatening and libeling the plaintiff’s counsel.  But of course insane person is his whole brand.

It's difficult to tell to what degree Jones' outburst was performative, versus a genuine emotional response. This segment was in the fourth hour of the show. Alex Jones (who was clearly drunk by that time) pre-empted the regular fourth hour host to make his special announcement. 

Even Alex Jones' lawyer Norm Pattis kept trying to calm him down and explain to him that publicly offering a bounty on air is a really bad idea, because it could taint witness testimony should the culprit actually get arrested on a tip from a bounty seeker. Jones' response was to cite the precedent of old West wanted posters, and refused to listen when Pattis tried to explain that it's an entirely different situation when police agencies offer rewards for information.

Then Alex Jones went on the attack against his legal opponents, accusing Christopher Mattei (lawyer for the families attorney the Sandy Hook families) of sending the contraband. Again Norm Pattis cautioned him against making accusations without requisite evidence, but Jones was in drunken rage mode and his lawyer's scolding seemed to further enrage him.

The podcast Knowledge Fight (which tracks and analyzes Alex Jones and Infowars propaganda) did a whopping 3-hour episode to cover this event, including clips from the show. The relevant segment starts at 02:18:00 into the run time.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 03:56:38 PM by John Albert »

Online Harry Black

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #366 on: June 20, 2019, 06:06:18 PM »
Whats the worst outcome that could happen from this case from Jones perspective?
Sued into oblivion?

Online CarbShark

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #367 on: June 20, 2019, 06:48:45 PM »
Whats the worst outcome that could happen from this case from Jones perspective?
Sued into oblivion?

This was one case, with one parent. How many Parkland families are in the same boat?

All of them.
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #368 on: June 20, 2019, 08:27:43 PM »
Whats the worst outcome that could happen from this case from Jones perspective?
Sued into oblivion?

He could indeed be bankrupted by judgments if found liable.

I’m actually not sure how I feel about that.
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Offline John Albert

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #369 on: June 24, 2019, 04:56:12 PM »
Not to blame anybody in particular, but I think it's quite possible that some ill-intentioned actor sent the stuff to Infowars for the purpose of framing Alex. If the contraband had originated in-house, I imagine the FBI would have found some evidence of that and made the appropriate arrests.

The way Alex constantly harps on themes of child rape and blood libel on his show, he's practically begging for it.

I thought the child or material was found in items turned over to the prosecution as part of discovery. In which case it would be Alex Jones trying to put child pronography in two prosecution teams hands. Or at least that's the way I thought this was headed.

I don't listen to The Alex Jones Show myself, so the first I heard of the debacle was from mainstream news reports which seemed inconsistent on the details. Then I checked the Knowledge Fight Facebook page, because I figured if anybody had the story straight it would be those guys. 

Turns out the story had initially been broken by Alex Jones himself on his own radio show. On June 14, Alex Jones opened the 4th hour of his show with a special segment about the situation. According to Alex, the FBI had called the Infowars offices to warn the staff they'd discovered CP had been sent to Infowars by some malicious 3rd party via email attachments. Alex said the FBI was considering Infowars a victim because the attachments were found buried in their spam folders and had never been opened on their side.

My own first suspicion was that somebody at Infowars might be into that kind of stuff and may have solicited it from a work computer, and Alex was spinning the situation as a "Globalist" conspiracy in attempt to get out ahead of the story to save face. Then again, I'm personally not inclined to regard Alex Jones, his associates or his operation very charitably.

But as more information has surfaced, it appears that some malicious actor probably did send the stuff to Infowars as a frame-up job. It's also been reported that the plaintiffs in the Sandy Hook case had requested the entire contents of Infowars' email servers as part of the discovery process.

So it looks as if Infowars must have turned that material over to their opposition without ever examining and vetting any of it themselves. So the messages containing the CP were never discovered by the Infowars staff or legal team, and went over to the Sandy Hook legal team along with everything else. I'm guessing the Sandy Hook lawyers must have opened those messages, found the contraband and dutifully called the FBI, who in turn investigated the matter, cleared Infowars of liability, and informed their IT department.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 05:08:26 PM by John Albert »

Online Harry Black

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #370 on: June 24, 2019, 05:00:09 PM »
I think its fair enough that they would not vett spam folders. That sounds like an unreasonable burden.

Offline John Albert

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #371 on: June 24, 2019, 05:21:10 PM »
I'm not qualified to comment on legal procedures, but I'm inclined to expect a good law firm would at least try to vet everything before turning it over to the opposition.

Online Harry Black

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #372 on: June 24, 2019, 05:34:20 PM »
I'm not qualified to comment on legal procedures, but I'm inclined to expect a good law firm would at least try to vet everything before turning it over to the opposition.
Well clearly I dont know much either.
But if it has to be completely vetted before handing over then it seems like cases involving huge amounts of data could take forever. I would have thought the onus is on the side requesting the data to go through it.
Afterall, they are being asked for everything, not just what they have vetted. I wouldnt think this kind of incident is common enough to put that kind of responsibility on them.

All pure speculation though.

Offline John Albert

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #373 on: June 24, 2019, 05:58:44 PM »
I didn't think of it as an "onus," just due diligence on the part of defense attorneys to review all the information before they turn it over to the opposition.

Then again, going through all those emails would probably require a ton of man-hours by paralegals and assistants, which will all get billed to the client. And all the lawsuits Alex Jones has racked up have undoubtedly been very expensive for Infowars...

In recent months Alex Jones has invited his lawyers as guests on the show with increasing frequency, which almost seems to imply some quid pro quo to offer radio publicity in exchange for legal fees...

Since he was de-platformed from social media, Alex Jones has been pivoting nearly every segment to an ad pitch or plea for donations. The Infowars store has been offering their products at drastically reduced prices, as if they're trying to clear out stock. And Alex Jones has recently introduced a new revenue stream, an MLM scheme for selling his fake meds...

Alex Jones has also moved his operation from its previous digs into a smaller, cheaper studio with a noticeable dip in audio quality.

Dan Friesen of Knowledge Fight has opined that all this appears to indicate severe economic hardships for the operation.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 06:04:47 PM by John Albert »

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Alex Jones / Info Wars
« Reply #374 on: June 24, 2019, 08:05:20 PM »
The plaintiffs did NOT request the entire contents of Infowars’ servers.  They requested only information relevant to the case at hand. It was the responsibility of Info wars and it’s attorneys to determine which items were relevant and turn them over; instead they sent the entire contents as a fuck-you to the plaintiffs, to increase the burden on them. That was not appropriate behavior, though it was not sanctionable.  If they had done as they were supposed to and send only relevant materials, they would themselves have discovered the pornographic images and they could have reported them themselves. As it is, they (unwittingly, I’m sure) retransmitted the images and left the plaintiff’s attorneys no choice but to report the images.  They did everything exactly as they were supposed to do; it’s Infowars and Alex Jones that have been misbehaving throughout.
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