Author Topic: Logan (2017) - SPOILERS  (Read 474 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline brilligtove

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4613
  • Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity, you deal with.
    • Valuum
Logan (2017) - SPOILERS
« on: March 05, 2017, 11:21:31 AM »
Logan (9/10) No Spoilers

Places where the movie boots me out of the narrative - discontinuities - lose points.

-1 point: Logan having a potty mouth was fine. I did not enjoy this choice for some other characters.
-1 point: There were several times that I noticed the acting - when it slipped from drama to melodrama. I suspect this was a directorial/editorial decision about the tone for some characters, rather than an actor's decision.
-½ point: The exposition for X23/Laura's origin was great on the screen and problematic from an in-universe logistical point of view. I'm not saying it couldn't work - just that I didn't feel like it was justified in the narrative.

Bonus points are awarded for instances when the movie drew me in completely.

+1½ points: This is a tragic tale that commits to the tragedy, explores it from several perspectives and in several modes (e.g., a short shot of a katana rusting over a dusty headboard). The story is an aching tooth you can't stop prodding, and with each jab you discover new levels and kinds of pain. This bonus is really (2 x ½) + (2 x ¼) points: Logan and Charles being the +½ points, Caliban and Laura the +¼ points.

I can't imagine what kind of person would come out of this movie feeling joyful. It is Not A Fun Time. It is intense, dark, violent, painful, and sad to the extent that it took me nearly 90 minutes to settle down enough to go to bed.

Verdict: If at all possible see this with friends at an earlyish show, and then go to a quiet place to socialize. We did it in the opposite order.

I kinda want to talk about the points above in more detail, but without spoiling it for others, so this thread.

-1 point: Logan having a potty mouth was fine. I did not enjoy this choice for some other characters.
Charles cursing was jarring and unpleasant every time, and not in a good way. I would have much preferred if he had done everything the same except for the cursing in the first half, chastened Logan ("Logan! Language!") and then uttered a single curse sometime after I would have enjoyed it more. I know he was losing his mind to disease, and that foul language is not an uncommon characteristic of that kind of degeneration. This aspect of his portrayal didn't feel right to me though, especially since it disappeared completely for significant portions of the movie.

-1 point: There were several times that I noticed the acting - when it slipped from drama to melodrama.
My rationale for suspecting this was a directorial/editorial decision about the tone for some characters, rather than an actor's decision, is that these actors are very much capable of portraying serious intensity and pain without hamming it up; Stewart as Picard shouting "There are four lights!" for example.

-½ point: The exposition for X23/Laura's origin was great on the screen and problematic from an in-universe logistical point of view.
In a very high security facility like that one no one is going to be able to use a cell phone to take footage of the operations. This means that some very small spy-cam must have been employed to capture the footage. That's fine, but there was nothing in the narrative that made that make sense. I suppose I could use the self-driving trucks and drones to justify "advanced tech" but I felt like the movie wanted me to think that the footage was caught on a cell phone, and that was jarring.

(2 x ½) + (2 x ¼) points: This is a tragic tale that commits to the tragedy, explores it from several perspectives and in several modes.
  • Logan (+½): The things that make him strong are the things that kill him. Based on my recollection of gr13 English in 1987 that sure feels like a powerful tragic hero to me. I loved how they made the adamantium the reason he's sick and that his healing factor is giving out. As the movie unfolds we see his other strengths - bravery, rage, tenacity, loyalty - killing him, a little bit at a time.
  • Charles (+½): He is a different kind of tragedy. There is a line of exposition that made the point (perhaps a little too bluntly): "A degenerative brain disease in the world's most dangerous mind." This most powerful mind has become pitiable and broken.
  • Caliban (+¼): Not a character I was familiar with before this movie (at least not that I recall), he's trying to atone for his sins. Ultimately I think he does, after torture, brutal pain, and a successful kamikaze attack.
  • Laura/X23 (+¼): I liked her more before she started to talk. I liked her throughout, mind you, and enjoyed the flood of words scene, but the brooding, seething savagery of that little girl was phenomenal to watch. Delivering the eulogy caused some uncomfortable laughter in the theatre, but I thought it was a perfect moment, especially for a child.
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5790
  • Cache rules everything around me.
Re: Logan (2017) - SPOILERS
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2017, 03:33:14 PM »
It's really good.  It's sad and incredibly violent, too, but good.  As a superhero flick, I'd give it 10/10.  In the general sense, I'd give it 8/10. 




And after the first couple X-Men movies, I completely wrote the franchise off.  I don't even remember any of it, and I don't feel like I was missing anything in seeing Logan.  It feels like this could be taken as a stand-alone film that is a cut above the rest. 
Every soup ladled to the hungry, every blanket draped over the cold signifies, in the final sense, a theft from my gigantic paycheck.

Online Harry Black

  • International Man of Mystery
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 10029
Re: Logan (2017) - SPOILERS
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2017, 04:25:48 PM »
As a stand alone,I think it implies too much to make sense to a new viewer.
I found the kids in Eden to be a bit too mature and well organised but I can get over it in service of the story.
The video- Yes. Very well edited right? But again, I think it was worth it and a nice shortcut to avoid exposition.

The swearing- I loved it. Charles is at the end of his tether. Trying to save Logan from himself. Hopeful for mutantkind, but completely out of juice. I think he needed to say fuck to show how few fucks he had left.

Caliban was really well done. He was somehow the sense of loss made manifest on screen.

Being very picky, the wires were a little too obvious during the action.
I loved how much of wolverines resolve was revealed. Its all well and good to have him go through hell and light a cigar when he is already healed. To see him take those hits and basically just not die but to carry the pain and wounds to do what was needed. Thats all I ever wanted to see him do on film and what the comics lacked until his most recent death arc.

I honestly think Stewarts performance was oscar worthy.

Offline brilligtove

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4613
  • Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity, you deal with.
    • Valuum
Re: Logan (2017) - SPOILERS
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2017, 06:44:13 PM »
As a stand alone,I think it implies too much to make sense to a new viewer.
I found the kids in Eden to be a bit too mature and well organised but I can get over it in service of the story.
The video- Yes. Very well edited right? But again, I think it was worth it and a nice shortcut to avoid exposition.

The swearing- I loved it. Charles is at the end of his tether. Trying to save Logan from himself. Hopeful for mutantkind, but completely out of juice. I think he needed to say fuck to show how few fucks he had left.

Caliban was really well done. He was somehow the sense of loss made manifest on screen.

Being very picky, the wires were a little too obvious during the action.
I loved how much of wolverines resolve was revealed. Its all well and good to have him go through hell and light a cigar when he is already healed. To see him take those hits and basically just not die but to carry the pain and wounds to do what was needed. Thats all I ever wanted to see him do on film and what the comics lacked until his most recent death arc.

I honestly think Stewarts performance was oscar worthy.

My problem with the swearing is that it lacked consistency. I thought Charles should continue swearing as he had started because he was not in control of his faculties, or that he shouldn't have started. I think we agree that it was a spectacular performance however.
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Offline Paul Blevins Jr.

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 101
Re: Logan (2017) - SPOILERS
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2017, 02:46:00 PM »
It was a fine film, felt very seventies to me.  Stewart and Jackman gave great performances, but the kid who played the little girl was outstanding!

Question: So the agency that created the mutant kids had decided to scrap enhancing children into mutant weapons and instead grow their own mutant clones completely from scratch such as x-24, the Wolvie clone. They had decided to kill the kids. So why all the effort to re-capture them? When the agency drones discovered where they were all hiding in the cabin in Dakota, why didn't they just send in a hellfire missile strike or two and be done with it?

Online Harry Black

  • International Man of Mystery
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 10029
Re: Logan (2017) - SPOILERS
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2017, 03:07:32 PM »
It was a fine film, felt very seventies to me.  Stewart and Jackman gave great performances, but the kid who played the little girl was outstanding!

Question: So the agency that created the mutant kids had decided to scrap enhancing children into mutant weapons and instead grow their own mutant clones completely from scratch such as x-24, the Wolvie clone. They had decided to kill the kids. So why all the effort to re-capture them? When the agency drones discovered where they were all hiding in the cabin in Dakota, why didn't they just send in a hellfire missile strike or two and be done with it?
Because all their IP would be smeared all over the bomb site for anyone to take samples of.
Or something....

Offline ShadowSot

  • Seasoned Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 517
Re: Logan (2017) - SPOILERS
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2017, 05:20:21 PM »
The only time I had issues with it were how occasionally tge humor felt out of place.
 The whole "I think I killed him," bit took me out of the movie for a moment.
 Most of it was really good.
 The only hope I have for the series going forward is that Deadpool and Cable do something to subvert this new everyone dies override to the franchise.
“I'm smart enough to know that I'm dumb.”
 - Richard Feynman

Online Harry Black

  • International Man of Mystery
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 10029
Re: Logan (2017) - SPOILERS
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2017, 05:24:40 PM »
The only time I had issues with it were how occasionally tge humor felt out of place.
 The whole "I think I killed him," bit took me out of the movie for a moment.
 Most of it was really good.
 The only hope I have for the series going forward is that Deadpool and Cable do something to subvert this new everyone dies override to the franchise.
I think Logan more or less stands alone,away from whatever else the X-universe may be.
Im keen to see some deadpool and cable but I would also like a good 90s x-men movie with jubilee and psylocke and a decent cyclops.
I think psylocke has the potential to replace wolverine as an interesting character and mystique as obligatory eye candy.

Offline ShadowSot

  • Seasoned Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 517
Re: Logan (2017) - SPOILERS
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2017, 05:38:06 PM »
It does stand on it's own, but it officially takes place in the X Men movie universe. Carrying on from the new timeline.
 I don't really like the latest in the series of X Men films, I am put off by having what is essentially an optimistic series ending with cynicism basically winning.
 Charles himself has killed the X Men, mutants are almost extinct with only this small group surviving. And unless th gm crops are suddenly dropped there's no reason to suspect that there will be anymore.
“I'm smart enough to know that I'm dumb.”
 - Richard Feynman

Online Harry Black

  • International Man of Mystery
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 10029
Re: Logan (2017) - SPOILERS
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2017, 05:47:49 AM »
http://screenrant.com/logan-movie-director-x-men-movies-universe-connections/
Jackman has stated that the timeline is slightly different. And the allusion with the comics implied (to me) that the version of events we have, may be a bastardised and heightened version of what actually happened in Logans past.
I also understand that Fox is doing something different with the X-continuity now that McAvoy and Fassbender are out of contract andLegion is an entire X tv show that takes place in another continuity.

The issues of BvS and MoS have ruined the DCEU for me going forward, because theres no way around what the characters did (other than Flashpoint), but I think Logan neatly side steps this. Its a possible future from an uncertain past, rather than a set in stone ending.