Author Topic: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")  (Read 2345 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Boßel

  • Go away or I shall taunt you a second time.
  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2389
Re: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")
« Reply #90 on: March 13, 2017, 07:17:12 AM »
Absent computational liability, life communicates exigence.

Online gmalivuk

  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1571
    • http://gmalivuk.livejournal.com
Re: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")
« Reply #91 on: March 13, 2017, 08:48:04 AM »

All three clauses of that post, and most clauses of all your other posts, are claims you're making.

What do you find to be a 'claim' in particular?
Propositions capable of being true or false are claims. Or if you know less about logic than you do about elementary school English, declarative sentences are claims.

Claims are not quantities that are shown to be true.

To rephrase, what do you find to be false?
Claims are not quantities at all. You're using both those words incorrectly.

And I didn't say anything was shown to be true or false. Claims are *capable* of being true or false.

You're asserting that they're true, and expecting us to believe you.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline The Latinist

  • Cyber Greasemonkey
  • Technical Administrator
  • Frequent Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3935
Re: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")
« Reply #92 on: March 13, 2017, 09:17:37 AM »
I wonder if there is perhaps a language barrier, here.  I imagine I might make similar mistakes if I were attempting to discuss philosophy with my limited German.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Online gmalivuk

  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1571
    • http://gmalivuk.livejournal.com
Re: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")
« Reply #93 on: March 13, 2017, 09:23:54 AM »
My diction prior, is grammatically sound, absent illegalness.

Lol no it isn't. For example, in the above sentence you have one spurious comma, two archaisms, one incorrect suffix, at least two examples of obscure or obtuse vocabulary that might lead to misunderstanding, and a tautology.

What you meant to say was "My earlier writing is grammatically correct."

Which it isn't.
I would argue that most of it is grammatical, in the strict sense of having technically appropriate syntax.

But then the same could be said of, "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously," which is why it was quoted upthread.

It's terible writing,, to be sure, but grammar isn't the main problem.

Edit: I think it's a snobbish affectation rather than a language barrier, except in the sense that a middle school student with a thesaurus has a language barrier with adults.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline The Latinist

  • Cyber Greasemonkey
  • Technical Administrator
  • Frequent Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3935
Re: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")
« Reply #94 on: March 13, 2017, 10:16:30 AM »
The OP is Jamaican, and perhaps grew up speaking a Jamaican patois.  I could easily see this writing as an attempt at imitating what the author considers a sophisticated English idiom.  I don't know enough about Jamaican dialects to know whether his strange sentence structure may be influenced by dialect.  The biggest problem by far, though, is word choice: the OP just uses words incorrectly.  Examples of words that he completely misuses include redundant, bound, deeply, instance, compounds, and illegalities, and quantities.  These doesn't strike me as thesaurus usage (believe me, I see that all the time with my younger students) but as the sort of mistakes non-native speakers make.

At least for now I'm going to assume that the OP is genuinely trying to communicate and just struggling to do so.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Online gmalivuk

  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1571
    • http://gmalivuk.livejournal.com
Re: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")
« Reply #95 on: March 13, 2017, 12:48:23 PM »
I could easily see this writing as an attempt at imitating what the author considers a sophisticated English idiom.
Sure, I just think it's imitation of a high register of his native language, rather than a second language.

In any case, I think we can all agree that productive responses to complaints that it's difficult to understand definitely do *not* include "My diction prior, is grammatically sound, absent illegalness. Albeit, effect may be an outcome/end, which may be a goal."
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline Belgarath

  • Forum Sugar Daddy
  • Technical Administrator
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • *****
  • Posts: 10835
Re: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")
« Reply #96 on: March 13, 2017, 03:02:19 PM »

Claims are not quantities that are shown to be true.

To rephrase, what do you find to be false?


Shifting the burden of proof.  That's not the way it works sailor.  You need to demonstrate that your claim is true, we don't demonstrate that it's false.
#notarealskeptic

Offline ProgrammingGodJordan

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 91
  • I am the creator/founder of "nonbeliefism.com".
    • "Non beliefism" = Atheism minus Theism
Re: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")
« Reply #97 on: March 14, 2017, 12:09:42 AM »

Claims are not quantities that are shown to be true.

To rephrase, what do you find to be false?


Shifting the burden of proof.  That's not the way it works sailor.  You need to demonstrate that your claim is true, we don't demonstrate that it's false.

The evidence is empirically observed.
Belief is likely to contain non-science. (Empirically observed)
Science is not likely to contain non-science. (Empirically observed)

"Non beliefism" is probably atheism's successor. ("Non beliefism" = Atheism minus Theism)
I am the creator/founder of "non beliefism":
http://nonbeliefism.com
 
 
I am a casual body-builder & software engineer:
https://www.facebook.com/ProgrammingGodJordan

Offline ProgrammingGodJordan

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 91
  • I am the creator/founder of "nonbeliefism.com".
    • "Non beliefism" = Atheism minus Theism
Re: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")
« Reply #98 on: March 14, 2017, 12:11:08 AM »
The OP is Jamaican, and perhaps grew up speaking a Jamaican patois.  I could easily see this writing as an attempt at imitating what the author considers a sophisticated English idiom.  I don't know enough about Jamaican dialects to know whether his strange sentence structure may be influenced by dialect.  The biggest problem by far, though, is word choice: the OP just uses words incorrectly.  Examples of words that he completely misuses include redundant, bound, deeply, instance, compounds, and illegalities, and quantities.  These doesn't strike me as thesaurus usage (believe me, I see that all the time with my younger students) but as the sort of mistakes non-native speakers make.

At least for now I'm going to assume that the OP is genuinely trying to communicate and just struggling to do so.

(A)
It is not that I misuse words, but rather than your vocabulary appears to be limited.
A particular word is not constrained to merely your awareness of the word; there may be hundreds of definitions for one word.


(B)
You are yet to show how such words were 'misused'.
Perhaps it is pertinent that you express how, rather than merely express the instance of their supposed misuse.

For example, evaluate this trivially accessible medium writing attempt of mine: http://www.academia.edu/25733790/Causal_Neural_Paradox_Thought_Curvature_Aptly_the_transient_naive_hypothesis
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 01:10:05 AM by ProgrammingGodJordan »
"Non beliefism" is probably atheism's successor. ("Non beliefism" = Atheism minus Theism)
I am the creator/founder of "non beliefism":
http://nonbeliefism.com
 
 
I am a casual body-builder & software engineer:
https://www.facebook.com/ProgrammingGodJordan

Online gmalivuk

  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1571
    • http://gmalivuk.livejournal.com
Re: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")
« Reply #99 on: March 14, 2017, 12:14:01 AM »
Definitions alone don't tell you how to use a word effectively. We know all the words you're using, we're just saying you're using many of them incorrectly.

It's clear you've read some definitions and perhaps looked up some synonyms, but you're not using words the way they're conventionally used.

Which means you're communicating badly, because language is a matter of convention and refusing to adhere to conventions just means you're refusing to adhere to methods that effectively communicate the ideas you seem to want to communicate.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline ProgrammingGodJordan

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 91
  • I am the creator/founder of "nonbeliefism.com".
    • "Non beliefism" = Atheism minus Theism
Re: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")
« Reply #100 on: March 14, 2017, 12:17:53 AM »
Definitions alone don't tell you how to use a word effectively. We know all the words you're using, we're just saying you're using many of them incorrectly.

It's clear you've read some definitions and perhaps looked up some synonyms, but you're not using words the way they're conventionally used.

Which means you're communicating badly, because language is a matter of convention and refusing to adhere to conventions just means you're refusing to adhere to methods that effectively communicate the ideas you seem to want to communicate.

I see.
Albeit, such does not engender that my grammar is invalid. (contrary to expressions by beings amidst this thread)
"Non beliefism" is probably atheism's successor. ("Non beliefism" = Atheism minus Theism)
I am the creator/founder of "non beliefism":
http://nonbeliefism.com
 
 
I am a casual body-builder & software engineer:
https://www.facebook.com/ProgrammingGodJordan

Online gmalivuk

  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1571
    • http://gmalivuk.livejournal.com
Re: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")
« Reply #101 on: March 14, 2017, 01:13:05 AM »
Well right. As I said, grammar isn't your problem, just like grammar isn't the problem with "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously."

Grammar isn't the problem with that sentence, but that sentence most certainly has problems. They result in its being quite literally meaningless.

Yours, admittedly, aren't all the way to nonsense, but I don't get the point of using the wrong synonym for a word at pretty much every opportunity.
The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better...is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.

Offline The Latinist

  • Cyber Greasemonkey
  • Technical Administrator
  • Frequent Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 3935
Re: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")
« Reply #102 on: March 14, 2017, 01:29:50 AM »
I would rather discuss your actual ideas, Jordan. My observations about a possible language barrier seem to have derailed us; for that I apologize. Allow me to repeat a post I made a shirt while ago.  I would be interested to hear your response:

But not all results or ends are goals. You cannot, therefore, logically conclude from your observation of something happening that it is a goal. All living things die, for instance, but one cannot (and, I note, you don't) conclude from that fact that the goal of life is death.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Online arthwollipot

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5059
  • Observer of Phenomena
Re: Why belief is non-necessary (written by inventor of "non beliefism")
« Reply #103 on: March 14, 2017, 01:36:39 AM »
It is not that I misuse words, but rather than your vocabulary appears to be limited.
A particular word is not constrained to merely your awareness of the word; there may be hundreds of definitions for one word.

“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”


― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass

 

personate-rain
personate-rain