Author Topic: Alternative History World War II Documentary  (Read 758 times)

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Offline Johnny Slick

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Re: Alternative History World War II Documentary
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2017, 03:06:09 PM »
Hitler's brass was pretty much right in with him about invading Russia though. Yes, there were a couple of people in logistics who were like "um, our tanks break down like every 5 kilometers; how the hell are we supposed to push 1,000 km in one season? Are you planning on buying a bunch of Shermans from the Americans?", but they were generally ignored. German intelligence on Russia was *horrible*, which I'm sure was in large part due to the purges but also had to be in large part because of gross incompetence by the Nazis as a whole. Like, there are contemporary intelligence reports about Russian officers that are basically "we're pretty sure this guy is in charge of this army and he probably has a staff that accompanies him". No "these are the people who are underneath him at the moment", not even "he has 14 attaches", basically "yes, this person is a general. We are pretty sure of that". The Germans also estimated that the Soviet Army was something like 1/3rd the size that it actually was and their estimate of how many tanks and artillery the USSR possessed was orders of magnitude lower than reality sometimes. This gets even more unconscionable when you realize that the Germans had actually been using Russian equipment and in some cases soldiers to train!

The USSR actually got really, really good by like 1942-3 or so at misleading the Germans in terms of where they were going to attack. Lest we forget, too, the Russians didn't merely throw their hordes at the Germans or whatever, they straight up encircled huge portions of their armies twice and destroyed them in detail. Yes, the purges hurt a lot, and yes, there was a good 2 weeks to a month in 1941 where the Germans were advancing as quickly as their army could move, but at the end of the day the Nazis got more or less wiped out by Russia, and not just because of the manpower differential, also because they were flat-out outfought on that front.

This is a lecture by David Glantz, a US military historian and actually *the* guy for the US who got access to Soviet accounts and basically debunked all the BS that the Germans told us after the war was over> I realize that outside of the US this may not be all that meaningful but it's worth noting that the US military absolutely does *not* fall in behind the wehraboos when it comes to the "Eastern Front" (which, by the way, try parsing that out with people who scream that only victors write history):



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Offline Desert Fox

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Re: Alternative History World War II Documentary
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2017, 06:15:31 PM »
I found something really interesting from one of those videos which changes how I view things.
http://www.historynet.com/four-days-in-december-germanys-path-to-war-with-the-u-s.htm

The Japanese had seen Germany’s victories in the west as a signal to move south to expand their Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. But after joining the Axis, Tokyo authorities demurred, explaining that they were not planning to invade Malaya until 1946, when the United States had announced it would give up its bases in the Philippines. Hitler countered that if concern about the United States was restraining Japan, Germany would immediately join in a war against the U.S. and its allies—provided Japan struck now, not five years later, when the Americans would be stronger. One way or another, Hitler expected to fight the United States, so it made no difference to him whether an American warship went down in the Atlantic or in the Pacific. The sooner Japan attacked, the better.

Basically, the Japanese planned to wait until 1946 to do anything too antagonizing until Hitler said that he had their back.
In addition, if they had waited a couple of weeks and saw how German was checked hard at Moscow (Some historians argue that the Germany almost lost the war right there), the Japanese might very well have changed their minds.
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
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Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: Alternative History World War II Documentary
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2017, 09:18:45 PM »
The US was going to give up its bases in the PI?
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Offline Desert Fox

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Re: Alternative History World War II Documentary
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2017, 09:22:43 PM »
The US was going to give up its bases in the PI?

I read that they were planning to in 1946
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Offline Noisy Rhysling

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Re: Alternative History World War II Documentary
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2017, 11:34:33 PM »
The US was going to give up its bases in the PI?

I read that they were planning to in 1946
Um, I don't think so. I know they were planning to give the PI independence on January 1, 1946, but that didn't mean they were leaving the bases. Quezon would have been very nervous.
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

 

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