Author Topic: some thoughts on cultural appropriation  (Read 90432 times)

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Online 2397

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2017, 01:15:16 PM »
It seems to me that what makes cultural appropriation a problem isn't the cultural appropriation, but an underlying power imbalance that is a problem independently of it.

If you can raise everyone up to an equal level, you'll be solving a lot of problems, without necessarily targeting them specifically.

Offline The Latinist

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2017, 01:25:06 PM »
But the power balance exists and, while it does, cultural appropriation has negative consequences for members of marginalized groups.  I don't think we're responsible for the results of our actions only under the assumption of a perfect world; we are responsible for their real-world consequences right now.  If a member of a marginalized group tells me that an action hurts her, what do I or she gain from my telling her that in an ideal world it wouldn't matter?
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2017, 02:02:39 PM »


But the power balance exists and, while it does, cultural appropriation has negative consequences for members of marginalized groups.  I don't think we're responsible for the results of our actions only under the assumption of a perfect world; we are responsible for their real-world consequences right now.  If a member of a marginalized group tells me that an action hurts her, what do I or she gain from my telling her that in an ideal world it wouldn't matter?

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Offline 6EQUJ5

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2017, 02:17:10 PM »
But the power balance exists and, while it does, cultural appropriation has negative consequences for members of marginalized groups.  I don't think we're responsible for the results of our actions only under the assumption of a perfect world; we are responsible for their real-world consequences right now.  If a member of a marginalized group tells me that an action hurts her, what do I or she gain from my telling her that in an ideal world it wouldn't matter?

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Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2017, 02:17:22 PM »
But the power balance exists and, while it does, cultural appropriation has negative consequences for members of marginalized groups.  I don't think we're responsible for the results of our actions only under the assumption of a perfect world; we are responsible for their real-world consequences right now.  If a member of a marginalized group tells me that an action hurts her, what do I or she gain from my telling her that in an ideal world it wouldn't matter?

So give us a specific example we can discuss because "hurt feelings in a vacuum" isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree.
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Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2017, 02:24:23 PM »
Waaaah... I'm an unsufferable troll who somehow thinks mocking people by putting words in their mouth makes for a good argument.

I agree.
Considering the last time I called you out for strawmanning an entire argument on this forum and you didn't walk it back, despite your claims you're the most self evaluating member of this forum, completely erases any credibility you have for whinging about other people doing it.

Still, it's amusing to watch you make angry baby noises again and again at Slick.
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Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2017, 02:25:54 PM »
Good thing the Phoenicians didn't keep the alphabet to themselves.

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Exactly.

"Cultural appropriation" is a brainchild of the American far left that the rest of the world can safely ignore. The very concept presumes an extremely unhistorical view of what cultures are and how the evolve over time.
I realize this is an evergreen complaint for you, but unless you bother to acknowledge the distinction between cultural exchange and cultural appropriation, you're going to have to continually bash the "left" for imagined crimes against history.
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Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2017, 02:33:03 PM »
Waaaah... I'm an unsufferable troll who somehow thinks mocking people by putting words in their mouth makes for a good argument.

I agree.
Considering the last time I called you out for strawmanning an entire argument on this forum and you didn't walk it back, despite your claims you're the most self evaluating member of this forum, completely erases any credibility you have for whinging about other people doing it.

Still, it's amusing to watch you make angry baby noises again and again at Slick.

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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2017, 02:33:50 PM »
But the power balance exists and, while it does, cultural appropriation has negative consequences for members of marginalized groups.  I don't think we're responsible for the results of our actions only under the assumption of a perfect world; we are responsible for their real-world consequences right now.  If a member of a marginalized group tells me that an action hurts her, what do I or she gain from my telling her that in an ideal world it wouldn't matter?

So give us a specific example we can discuss because "hurt feelings in a vacuum" isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree.
Apparently all the specific examples are only available on video.

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Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #54 on: April 04, 2017, 02:39:30 PM »
But the power balance exists and, while it does, cultural appropriation has negative consequences for members of marginalized groups.  I don't think we're responsible for the results of our actions only under the assumption of a perfect world; we are responsible for their real-world consequences right now.  If a member of a marginalized group tells me that an action hurts her, what do I or she gain from my telling her that in an ideal world it wouldn't matter?

So give us a specific example we can discuss because "hurt feelings in a vacuum" isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree.
Apparently all the specific examples are only available on video.

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Stop appropriating Korean culture!

Oh, but wait, if it's just a video we need...
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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2017, 02:48:38 PM »
But the power balance exists and, while it does, cultural appropriation has negative consequences for members of marginalized groups.  I don't think we're responsible for the results of our actions only under the assumption of a perfect world; we are responsible for their real-world consequences right now.  If a member of a marginalized group tells me that an action hurts her, what do I or she gain from my telling her that in an ideal world it wouldn't matter?

So give us a specific example we can discuss because "hurt feelings in a vacuum" isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree.
Nah, because if we don't agree that appropriation can have a negative impact without all cultural sharing being bad by association, then it just devolves into the same people making bad-faith arguments to try to debunk specific examples instead of engaging on the concept itself.

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Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2017, 02:57:27 PM »
But the power balance exists and, while it does, cultural appropriation has negative consequences for members of marginalized groups.  I don't think we're responsible for the results of our actions only under the assumption of a perfect world; we are responsible for their real-world consequences right now.  If a member of a marginalized group tells me that an action hurts her, what do I or she gain from my telling her that in an ideal world it wouldn't matter?

So give us a specific example we can discuss because "hurt feelings in a vacuum" isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree.
Nah, because if we don't agree that appropriation can have a negative impact without all cultural sharing being bad by association, then it just devolves into the same people making bad-faith arguments to try to debunk specific examples instead of engaging on the concept itself.

Well, no point then, eh?  I mean if anecdotal evidence is too much to ask, and we're supposed to just take people's word for it about other people's feelings being well founded a priori, then I guess it's the fault of those of us who just cannot read your minds.
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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #57 on: April 04, 2017, 03:05:19 PM »


But the power balance exists and, while it does, cultural appropriation has negative consequences for members of marginalized groups.  I don't think we're responsible for the results of our actions only under the assumption of a perfect world; we are responsible for their real-world consequences right now.  If a member of a marginalized group tells me that an action hurts her, what do I or she gain from my telling her that in an ideal world it wouldn't matter?

So give us a specific example we can discuss because "hurt feelings in a vacuum" isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree.
Nah, because if we don't agree that appropriation can have a negative impact without all cultural sharing being bad by association, then it just devolves into the same people making bad-faith arguments to try to debunk specific examples instead of engaging on the concept itself.

Well, no point then, eh?  I mean if anecdotal evidence is too much to ask, and we're supposed to just take people's word for it about other people's feelings being well founded a priori, then I guess it's the fault of those of us who just cannot read your minds.

That's the sort of motivared reasoning I'm talking about, thank you!
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Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2017, 03:09:48 PM »
Yep.  The Lat makes a meta argument.  I ask for a hypothetical.  You say there's no point because I'm incapable of changing my mind.  I agree that if that's the approach taken I won't change my mind.  My reasoning is that of a downright motivational speaker right now!  Gasp in awe at my insane refusal to submit to your superior logical argument!
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #59 on: April 04, 2017, 03:17:09 PM »


But the power balance exists and, while it does, cultural appropriation has negative consequences for members of marginalized groups.  I don't think we're responsible for the results of our actions only under the assumption of a perfect world; we are responsible for their real-world consequences right now.  If a member of a marginalized group tells me that an action hurts her, what do I or she gain from my telling her that in an ideal world it wouldn't matter?

So give us a specific example we can discuss because "hurt feelings in a vacuum" isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree.
Nah, because if we don't agree that appropriation can have a negative impact without all cultural sharing being bad by association, then it just devolves into the same people making bad-faith arguments to try to debunk specific examples instead of engaging on the concept itself.

If we had a couple dozen hypothetical examples, what are the odds that people who promote the appropriation/sharing dichotomy would be able to reliably bin them in the same way?



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