Author Topic: some thoughts on cultural appropriation  (Read 90139 times)

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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2017, 03:20:59 PM »


But the power balance exists and, while it does, cultural appropriation has negative consequences for members of marginalized groups.  I don't think we're responsible for the results of our actions only under the assumption of a perfect world; we are responsible for their real-world consequences right now.  If a member of a marginalized group tells me that an action hurts her, what do I or she gain from my telling her that in an ideal world it wouldn't matter?

So give us a specific example we can discuss because "hurt feelings in a vacuum" isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree.
Nah, because if we don't agree that appropriation can have a negative impact without all cultural sharing being bad by association, then it just devolves into the same people making bad-faith arguments to try to debunk specific examples instead of engaging on the concept itself.

If we had a couple dozen hypothetical examples, what are the odds that people who promote the appropriation/sharing dichotomy would be able to reliably bin them in the same way?



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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2017, 03:23:09 PM »
So...not very high then.

Not the best sales pitch.

Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2017, 03:27:30 PM »
Yep.  The Lat makes a meta argument.  I ask for a hypothetical.  You say there's no point because I'm incapable of changing my mind.  I agree that if that's the approach taken I won't change my mind.  My reasoning is that of a downright motivational speaker right now!  Gasp in awe at my insane refusal to submit to your superior logical argument!
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Offline jt512

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #63 on: April 04, 2017, 03:28:57 PM »
Thought about it some more. I think the issue is that by removing the original culture from the practice,you are denying someone the chance to appreciate and learn about that culture and also denying tthat culture an opportunity to contribute something new. 


Remind me of how opening a "kosher-style" restaurant removes the culture from the cuisine.  I won't even bother to ask you about the rest of your post.

Maybe the reason you have to think about it so hard to understand it is that it's bullshit in the first place.
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Offline jt512

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #64 on: April 04, 2017, 03:32:26 PM »
The more I think about this, I think the problem is really one of plagiarism without citation.

Keep thinking Dave.  Eventually you will hit upon some idea that will allow you to accept this insane bit of political correctness.  Then you, too, can be one of the cool kids. 
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Offline jt512

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2017, 03:35:49 PM »
Black artists insist that painting of lynching victim by White artist be destroyed: link.
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Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2017, 03:39:21 PM »
The more I think about this, I think the problem is really one of plagiarism without citation.

Keep thinking Dave.  Eventually you will hit upon some idea that will allow you to accept this insane bit of political correctness.  Then you, too, can be one of the cool kids.

This is actually such an amazingly clear case of motivated reasoning that I know he must be genuine in his discomfort in his present cognitive dissonance.  He says that people he respects keep saying this is an idea with value, so he's trying to find some means by which he can justify agreeing with them.  He's openly purposefully engaging in motivated reasoning.
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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2017, 03:43:38 PM »
Black artists insist that painting of lynching victim by White artist be destroyed: link.
And we all know that extreme examples discredit an entire idea, right?
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Offline jt512

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #68 on: April 04, 2017, 03:49:40 PM »
Black artists insist that painting of lynching victim by White artist be destroyed: link.
And we all know that extreme examples discredit an entire idea, right?

The idea itself is extreme. 
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Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2017, 03:50:41 PM »
Waaaah... I'm an unsufferable troll who somehow thinks mocking people by putting words in their mouth makes for a good argument.

I agree.
Considering the last time I called you out for strawmanning an entire argument on this forum and you didn't walk it back, despite your claims you're the most self evaluating member of this forum, completely erases any credibility you have for whinging about other people doing it.

Still, it's amusing to watch you make angry baby noises again and again at Slick.

Can't help that I'm smarter than you.  Dance monkey dance!
Oh so you're dishonest and an awful person? Got it. And to think I may have been trying with you.
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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #70 on: April 04, 2017, 03:58:20 PM »
Black artists insist that painting of lynching victim by White artist be destroyed: link.
And we all know that extreme examples discredit an entire idea, right?

The idea itself is extreme.
Ipse dixit.
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Offline jt512

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #71 on: April 04, 2017, 04:01:43 PM »
Black artists insist that painting of lynching victim by White artist be destroyed: link.
And we all know that extreme examples discredit an entire idea, right?

The idea itself is extreme.
Ipse dixit.

You can disprove my assertion with a counterexample.  Got one?
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Offline Johnny Slick

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #72 on: April 04, 2017, 04:07:49 PM »
If people are actually looking for examples and not just being like "lolol u lib cucks can't think of anything lolol", Spike Lee's movie Bamboozled also delves pretty deeply into the idea of cultural appropriation by creating an extreme example of it (among other things). Here's an essay that discusses the subject matter:

http://blackfilm.tumblr.com/post/72490202471/a-black-centered-analysis-of-bamboozled-by
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #73 on: April 04, 2017, 04:20:16 PM »
Creative works from Spike Lee and Amiri Baraka are fascinating, to be sure, but somewhat less instructive and persuasive than real world examples of cultural appropriation gone awry.


« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 04:42:55 PM by D4M10N »

Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #74 on: April 04, 2017, 04:26:18 PM »
If people are actually looking for examples and not just being like "lolol u lib cucks can't think of anything lolol", Spike Lee's movie Bamboozled also delves pretty deeply into the idea of cultural appropriation by creating an extreme example of it (among other things). Here's an essay that discusses the subject matter:

http://blackfilm.tumblr.com/post/72490202471/a-black-centered-analysis-of-bamboozled-by

So I read the analysis of this film that touches on racial identity in part by being about making a show based on racial stereotypes, but honestly, without having seen the film, I doubt it can really be discussed.  It's an analysis of a commentary film that makes its commentary through the creation of a show within it.  Can we get something less meta please?
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