Author Topic: some thoughts on cultural appropriation  (Read 90391 times)

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Offline The Latinist

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #225 on: April 08, 2017, 10:08:12 AM »
b) that merely imitating, copying or borrowing a behaviour of a 'minority' culture even *without* the intention to offend, is still offensive especially if no due consideration is given to history or backstory behind that behaviour.

I believe that I am responsible not only for the intent behind my words and actions, but for their effects.  So I make an effort to consider how my words and actions might affect others before I take them and, if I cause unintentional harm, I apologize and change my behavior.  That's pretty much all I think people are asking for: if you are made aware that your cultural borrowing hurts others, stop it and apologize.  Why is that such an objectionable idea to some people?
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Offline 2397

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #226 on: April 08, 2017, 11:48:36 AM »
I believe that I am responsible not only for the intent behind my words and actions, but for their effects.  So I make an effort to consider how my words and actions might affect others before I take them and, if I cause unintentional harm, I apologize and change my behavior.  That's pretty much all I think people are asking for: if you are made aware that your cultural borrowing hurts others, stop it and apologize.  Why is that such an objectionable idea to some people?

There are people who tell same-sex couples that their actions hurt them, when all they're doing are the same things that different-sex couples do.

You can cause unintentional harm and not in any way be in the wrong. Maybe sometimes you are, but it's not enough to go by what other people tell you they don't want you to do.

Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #227 on: April 08, 2017, 11:52:07 AM »
There are people who experience genuine emotional pain when someone else dares to blaspheme or merely criticize their prophet or god. All they require is that blasphemers and critics stop and apologize. Why is that so much to ask?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 11:55:36 AM by D4M10N »

Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #228 on: April 08, 2017, 11:56:02 AM »
And if not appropriating a culture for fun and profit was as harmful as the continued existence of a religion, you would have an excellent point. Since that's not the case, you don't have a point at all.
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #229 on: April 08, 2017, 11:59:54 AM »
Either way, you're giving other people control over your actions, based solely on their subjective experiences and perceptions. Have fun with that, but I'm going to watch Ghost in the Shell.

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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #230 on: April 08, 2017, 12:40:16 PM »


"Your feelings are invalid because I feel differently!"

A perfect circle.
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #231 on: April 08, 2017, 01:41:31 PM »
Again with the fake quotes.

If you want to give other people the power to tell you which art you're allowed to enjoy, that's not my problem. If you want to tell other people which art they are allowed to enjoy, you're going to need a more persuasive argument.

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Offline Johnny Slick

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #232 on: April 08, 2017, 03:28:43 PM »
So you think SkeptiQueer falsely quoted himself?

Also, the snarky rephrasing that SQ is doing is kind of a staple of Internet culture. You're not... objecting to a thing that SQ thinks is OK to do because it makes *you* feel bad, are you?
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #233 on: April 08, 2017, 03:31:39 PM »
Rephrasing implies that the original idea remains intact, does it not?

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Offline Johnny Slick

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #234 on: April 08, 2017, 03:32:49 PM »
Rephrasing implies that the original idea remains intact, does it not?

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I thought that the original deliberate misquote by SQ did, in fact, keep your original idea perfectly intact. Do you *feel* differently?
Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.

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Offline nameofthewave

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #235 on: April 08, 2017, 03:37:37 PM »
You say that you get where its coming from but that this one bizarre example invalidates all examples?

Nowhere did I say that this example invalidates all examples, and I thought I was pretty clear on that. It was a example of why I'm a bit uneasy with concept of cultural 'ownership'.

Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #236 on: April 08, 2017, 03:39:54 PM »
Rephrasing implies that the original idea remains intact, does it not?

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I thought that the original deliberate misquote by SQ did, in fact, keep your original idea perfectly intact. Do you *feel* differently?
It isn't really about feelings at all, it is about a failure to communicate. At no point did I say anything which resembled that quote.

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Offline Harry Black

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #237 on: April 08, 2017, 03:59:39 PM »
You say that you get where its coming from but that this one bizarre example invalidates all examples?

Nowhere did I say that this example invalidates all examples, and I thought I was pretty clear on that. It was a example of why I'm a bit uneasy with concept of cultural 'ownership'.
Thats not really what its about though.
Its about helping people from less powerful cultures to have the option of preserving said cultures, assuming they arent hurting anyone with it.
The example you posted (taking it at face value) is not really incompatible with that. You and I may agree on that example.

Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #238 on: April 08, 2017, 03:59:55 PM »


Rephrasing implies that the original idea remains intact, does it not?

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I thought that the original deliberate misquote by SQ did, in fact, keep your original idea perfectly intact. Do you *feel* differently?
It isn't really about feelings at all, it is about a failure to communicate. At no point did I say anything which resembled that quote.

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Yeah you did, actually, unless you're asserting that I was pretending you had said those exact words, rather than summarizing them as the selfish bullshit they were. Your first post in this thread was invalidating superdave's feeling because in your words, you enjoyed the mishmashing of cultures, and it's hard to find fault unless someone is mocking. That is 100% using your feelings to invalidate superdave's feelings. There is no other interpretation other than that.

Your last post referencing GITS (OH HOW EDGY, YOU'RE GOING TO WATCH A FILM NOTED FOR SONE CULTURAL APPROPRIATION CONTROVERSY, YOU SURE GOT US GOOD!) did the same thing. You can describe any call for social change as "giving other people control of your actions" if you want to abstract it enough. Not doing a racism is literally changing your actions based on how it makes other people feel. Every part of a functioning society is changing your actions because of how they effect others, but instead you've decided that on this issue your feelings invalidate other people's feelings.

As I said, a perfect circle.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 04:01:59 PM by SkeptiQueer »
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #239 on: April 08, 2017, 04:08:26 PM »
Where exactly did I even imply superdave was wrong to feel as he does?

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