Author Topic: some thoughts on cultural appropriation  (Read 90150 times)

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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #315 on: April 10, 2017, 02:07:56 PM »
Okay, assuming everyone is on board with a continuum from harmless exchange to harmful appropriation, can we at least rank the examples in the OP from least to most harmful? That way, people will know which of those actions (after some appropriate level of generalization) to most conscientiously avoid. This is a moral exercise, after all.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 02:10:16 PM by D4M10N »

Offline Shibboleth

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #316 on: April 10, 2017, 03:24:32 PM »
The most harmful would be appropriating a culture's island and blowing it up with thermonuclear weapons.
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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #317 on: April 10, 2017, 04:14:12 PM »
Okay, assuming everyone is on board with a continuum from harmless exchange to harmful appropriation, can we at least rank the examples in the OP from least to most harmful? That way, people will know which of those actions (after some appropriate level of generalization) to most conscientiously avoid. This is a moral exercise, after all.
What benefit do people gain from a ranking syste.?
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #318 on: April 10, 2017, 04:43:05 PM »
I assume that the point in distinguishing cultural appropriation (harmful) from cultural exchange  (neutral or beneficial) is to encourage moral agents to avoid appropriation in favor of exchange. If this assumption is correct, then we can put the system into practice by applying it in real world situations. It so happens that the original post has several examples, worthy of consideration. Since I'm barely Ashkenazi by ancestry and not at all Jewish by culture, which of those four things must I most strenuously avoid?

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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #319 on: April 10, 2017, 04:44:41 PM »
Abandoned that ranking think pretty quick, didn't we?
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #320 on: April 10, 2017, 06:43:25 PM »
I just asked for the top-ranked most appropriative example from the OP. That's a pretty small ask, assuming that this appropriation concept pulls any weight at all in terms of guiding real-world decision making. You are welcome, of course, to rank all four.

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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #321 on: April 10, 2017, 06:44:44 PM »
That's not how ethical and moral questions work.
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #322 on: April 10, 2017, 06:50:30 PM »
If you say so. As a consequentialist concerned with harm aversion, I'd have to disagree.

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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #323 on: April 10, 2017, 06:56:35 PM »
Funny, I don't remember encountering any lists if the Worst Things in my admittedly brief overview of conequentialist philosophy. In fact requiring an external definition of ranking is more akin to moral absolutism than consequentialism, since you're relying on an external set of absolutes rather than examining the harm on a case by case basis.
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #324 on: April 10, 2017, 07:50:16 PM »
Neither external nor absolute.

Look, if you don't think the idea of cultural appropriation helps guide actual decision-making, just say so.

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Offline 6EQUJ5

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #325 on: April 10, 2017, 10:07:20 PM »
Neither external nor absolute.

Look, if you don't think the idea of cultural appropriation helps guide actual decision-making, just say so.

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This whole thing of misinterpreting and drawing false parallels and then acting like it is some kind of gotcha isn't actually forming a compelling argument of any kind.
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Offline Drunken Idaho

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #326 on: April 10, 2017, 10:07:57 PM »
If you say so. As a consequentialist concerned with harm aversion, I'd have to disagree.

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I agree that there's not much utility in ranks here, and probably not much in general.

I think there would be good value in finding controversial examples to discuss--instances where some here feel the appropriation is more negative than positive, and others vice versa.

For example: I think most instances of musical cultural appropriation are more positive than negative, but it's still important to note the negative aspects.

Blues becoming popularized was imo an overall good thing: it expanded both the art itself and its audience, and led to blues becoming a major part of the foundation of nearly all Western pop music since. But we should also highlight the individual artists who were negatively affected by the art's assimilation, and also consider the changes and losses to the music itself which inevitably accompany such appropriation.
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #327 on: April 10, 2017, 10:27:35 PM »


If you say so. As a consequentialist concerned with harm aversion, I'd have to disagree.

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I agree that there's not much utility in ranks here, and probably not much in general.

I think there would be good value in finding controversial examples to discuss--instances where some here feel the appropriation is more negative than positive, and others vice versa.

Would that discussion actually help clarify what we should or shouldn't do, as musicians or as consumers of music?

My son plays bass guitar and upright bass. Given that he is European American, Hispanic and at least nominally Native American, are there certain genres he needs to avoid playing or remixing? Can he jam on blues tabs guilt-free?


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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #328 on: April 10, 2017, 10:38:00 PM »
Neither external nor absolute.

Look, if you don't think the idea of cultural appropriation helps guide actual decision-making, just say so.

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This whole thing of misinterpreting and drawing false parallels and then acting like it is some kind of gotcha isn't actually forming a compelling argument of any kind.
Agreed.

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Offline NEKSkeptic

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #329 on: April 10, 2017, 11:09:54 PM »
What do people think about the recent incident at Pitzer College in which female students of color said that white women should not wear hoop earrings because it is cultural appropriation?

My opinion is that this request was absurd.  Especially since hoop earrings originated in Ancient Greece. 

Article here:  http://claremontindependent.com/pitzer-college-ra-white-people-cant-wear-hoop-earrings/

 

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