Author Topic: some thoughts on cultural appropriation  (Read 92309 times)

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Offline Captain Video

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1725 on: October 25, 2018, 06:41:54 PM »
The thread has now turned into a culinary thread. Why is nobody answering the CA question?
If one can appropriate hairstyles and jewelry, why not cuisine?

you cant, its a great example of how CA is bullshit.

I would argue that some of our greatest food items come from joining one cultures food with another.   
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1726 on: November 01, 2018, 12:24:51 PM »
Been seeing a lot of Día de Muertos props and whatnot this year, even at work. Should we condemn this as cultural appropriation by non-Hispanic white people, assuming they did the  decorating?


Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1727 on: November 01, 2018, 03:47:06 PM »
I think everyone should be allowed to celebrate whatever holidays they want.
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Offline Keo_Mitchell

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1728 on: November 02, 2018, 01:46:48 AM »
Me neither.

But I have seen those kinds of products used as examples of cultural appropriation. The narrative goes that capitalism economically disenfranchises ethnic minorities, thereby creating opportunity for dominant culture entrepreneurs to step in and rob them of their cultural artifacts, and reproduce them as cheap, bland imitations that can be marketed to the less-discerning tastes of the dominant majority.

Not sure I'm buying that argument though.

Ortega was founded by this person with an extraordinarily long name Maria Conception Jacinta Dominguez Ortega who apparently lived in a Spanish settlement before it became known as California.

La Choy was apparently founded by a Korean gent. Dr. Ilhan New and a Michigan gent. Wally Smith who owned a grocery store. Although none are Chinese, there is a difference between American Chinese and authentic Chinese dishes. Also the La Choy brand founders had interesting lives and at least one had an interesting end that was quite shocking. 

Tandoor Chef is spawned from a company created by an Indian woman who immigrated to America.

This is not a jab at you John, I was just curious to see how accurate people who hold those views are. At least with those three brands, it appears someone from a different culture carved a corner of the culinary market for themselves; and then their venture took off. Point is, I'm curious to know what other mass produced products people complain about and their actual origins. As someone who was born and raised in Hawaii, the touted melting pot of the world, I don't quite understand the outrage of a fusion of culture in a positive light.
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Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1729 on: November 02, 2018, 07:46:24 AM »
I think everyone should be allowed to celebrate whatever holidays they want.
I'm fine with that approach, but it's hard to see why this sort of thing would get a pass from the sort of folks who conceptualize CA as unethical.

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1730 on: November 02, 2018, 10:06:29 AM »
I think everyone should be allowed to celebrate whatever holidays they want.
I'm fine with that approach, but it's hard to see why this sort of thing would get a pass from the sort of folks who conceptualize CA as unethical.

Probably not. But I'm not one of those people. I think the whole concept makes no sense.
"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

Offline John Albert

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1731 on: November 03, 2018, 04:38:52 PM »
Me neither.

But I have seen those kinds of products used as examples of cultural appropriation. The narrative goes that capitalism economically disenfranchises ethnic minorities, thereby creating opportunity for dominant culture entrepreneurs to step in and rob them of their cultural artifacts, and reproduce them as cheap, bland imitations that can be marketed to the less-discerning tastes of the dominant majority.

Not sure I'm buying that argument though.

Ortega was founded by this person with an extraordinarily long name Maria Conception Jacinta Dominguez Ortega who apparently lived in a Spanish settlement before it became known as California.

La Choy was apparently founded by a Korean gent. Dr. Ilhan New and a Michigan gent. Wally Smith who owned a grocery store. Although none are Chinese, there is a difference between American Chinese and authentic Chinese dishes. Also the La Choy brand founders had interesting lives and at least one had an interesting end that was quite shocking. 

Tandoor Chef is spawned from a company created by an Indian woman who immigrated to America.

This is not a jab at you John, I was just curious to see how accurate people who hold those views are. At least with those three brands, it appears someone from a different culture carved a corner of the culinary market for themselves; and then their venture took off. Point is, I'm curious to know what other mass produced products people complain about and their actual origins. As someone who was born and raised in Hawaii, the touted melting pot of the world, I don't quite understand the outrage of a fusion of culture in a positive light.

No worries.

Offline haudace

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1732 on: November 04, 2018, 10:57:41 AM »
For those acting like concerns about CA are bullshit - here's a simple example (although I don't know what this is going to do since it's been brought up countless times in this thread).

Stereotyping and dehumanizing African features


Black features combined with an european ethnic look making people billionaires.




Let's stop pretending negative CA isn't real in some cases.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 11:05:01 AM by haudace »

Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1733 on: November 04, 2018, 11:09:56 AM »
Dunno who that woman is in the photo; skeptical of the idea that she got rich doing minstrel shows.

Offline haudace

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1734 on: November 04, 2018, 11:58:48 AM »
Dunno who that woman is in the photo; skeptical of the idea that she got rich doing minstrel shows.

Kylie Jenner makes millions selling products accentuating lips. For her, it is a mark of beauty. For africans, it is something to make fun of (minstrel photo is old but it still happens nowadays). The messaging here is that big lips are great on light skinned people, not so great on brown people.

There is nothing overly complex about CA, it really is that simple. I am not sure I understand what is so confusing to you.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 12:03:18 PM by haudace »

Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1735 on: November 04, 2018, 12:06:54 PM »
I'm sorry but this really is rather confusing.

Are you saying that it is part of African (American) culture to have plump, attractive lips, much like Angelina Jolie?

Offline Rai

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1736 on: November 04, 2018, 12:07:17 PM »
Dunno who that woman is in the photo; skeptical of the idea that she got rich doing minstrel shows.

Kylie Jenner makes millions selling products accentuating lips. For her, it is a mark of beauty. For africans, it is something to make fun of (minstrel photo is old but it still happens nowadays). The messaging here is that big lips are great on light skinned people, not so great on brown people.

There is nothing overly complex about CA, it really is that simple. I am not sure I understand what is so confusing to you.

There is a clique in this thread that has no intention of even considering arguments. They just want to circle-jerk about their preconcieved ideas and pat each other on the back about how hot their takes are about CA.

They did succeed in shutting down the debate and chasing away everyone who disagreed with them.

Offline haudace

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1737 on: November 04, 2018, 12:13:44 PM »
I'm sorry but this really is rather confusing.

Are you saying that it is part of African (American) culture to have plump, attractive lips, much like Angelina Jolie?

Really - Are we suddenly going to forget the multitude of racist incidents of Africans being categorized as subhuman apes because of their physical features??

I wish I had the superpower to turn Jolie into a black women and see how things turn out.

Offline D4M10N

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1738 on: November 04, 2018, 12:15:31 PM »
Are you guys both saying it is part of African (American) culture to have plump, attractive lips, much like Angelina Jolie?

p.s. Seems like a necessary precondition of  "cultural appropriation" that the thing which is appropriated would be an aspect of culture.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 12:18:35 PM by D4M10N »

Offline haudace

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Re: some thoughts on cultural appropriation
« Reply #1739 on: November 04, 2018, 12:20:28 PM »
edited out.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 12:25:09 PM by haudace »

 

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