Author Topic: Net Neutrality ?  (Read 3887 times)

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Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2017, 10:10:38 AM »
The way to solve this issue is antitrust against ISPs, not net neutrality.  Keep the FCC's grubby hands off the internet!

Por Que No Los Dos?

Because there are no downsides to breaking up these effective monopolies (for consumers and citizens).  There are with allowing the FCC to have direct regulatory power over internet traffic.  Even if you want both, do the anti-trust stuff first!
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Offline wastrel

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2017, 12:20:42 PM »
"Breaking up" a facilities based monopoly is nowhere near as simple as some describe.  Apart from wholesale agreements, which are already in place due to the Telcom act of 1996, the only way to have true network competition is to retrench the last mile to each home, which is a HUGELY expensive proposition.

Offline PANTS!

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2017, 12:39:54 PM »
The way to solve this issue is antitrust against ISPs, not net neutrality.  Keep the FCC's grubby hands off the internet!

Por Que No Los Dos?

Because there are no downsides to breaking up these effective monopolies (for consumers and citizens).  There are with allowing the FCC to have direct regulatory power over internet traffic.  Even if you want both, do the anti-trust stuff first!

I think you are overstating both the lack of downsides and the direct regulatory power.  Also, if I had my way the FTC, and other consumer agencies, would have other methods of redress besides antitrust.
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Offline werecow

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2017, 07:06:42 AM »
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 07:20:30 AM by werecow »
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Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2017, 03:12:36 PM »
*grumble grumble*

Quote
The Federal Communications Commission voted 2-1 today to start the process of eliminating net neutrality rules and the classification of home and mobile Internet service providers as common carriers under Title II of the Communications Act.

The Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) proposes eliminating the Title II classification and seeks comment on what, if anything, should replace the current net neutrality rules. But Chairman Ajit Pai is making no promises about reinstating the two-year-old net neutrality rules that forbid ISPs from blocking or throttling lawful Internet content or prioritizing content in exchange for payment. Pai's proposal argues that throttling websites and applications might somehow help Internet users.

Throttling of websites and online services might help customers, FCC says

The FCC plans to take comments on its plan until August 16 (the docket is available here) and then make a final decision sometime after that.

...

From: Ars Technica
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Offline Nemmzy

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2017, 10:18:33 PM »
Andrew might be right about his anti trust stance as the solution.


https://www.wired.com/2014/06/net_neutrality_missing/


This article argues that what is important is not fast vs slow lanes. Fast lanes already exist due to peering. I never thought of peering in that way before but it is essentially true imo. The author is arguing we should maintain the free and open internet by ensuring ISPs can't double dip by requiring payment on both ends. This can be done by returning to the 90s and European model of allowing any company  who wants access to the last mile to have it. If you have 20 ISPs to choose from the big ones are less likely to throttle traffic from content providers they don't like for fear of lossing customers. However, I think that has a snowballs chance in hell of happening.

« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 10:20:50 PM by Nemmzy »

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2017, 10:24:17 PM »
Where we're headed, the 'Giant Piles of Tangled Shit Everywhere' model they use in the third world could be an improvement. 

Edit:

This_Is_What_Freedom_Looks_Like.jpg:
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 02:27:18 PM by Soldier of FORTRAN »
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Offline moj

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2017, 03:38:03 PM »
Not at all surprising.

https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/06/06/new-mozilla-poll-americans-political-parties-overwhelmingly-support-net-neutrality/
Quote
— Respondents across the political spectrum (78%) believe that equal access to the Internet is a right, with large majorities of Democrats (88%), Independents (71%), and Republicans (67%) in agreement

— Respondents have little trust in government institutions to protect their access to the Internet. The highest levels of distrust were reported for the Trump administration (70%), Congress (78%) and the FCC (58%)

— When it comes to corporations protecting access to the Internet, 54% of respondents distrust ISPs

— Americans view net neutrality as having a positive impact on most of society. Respondents said it is a “good thing” for small businesses (70%), individuals (69%), innovators (65%) and ISPs (55%), but fewer think that it will benefit big businesses (46%)

Offline PANTS!

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2017, 05:12:13 PM »
If the ISPs begin favoring content for payment, I wonder if they can then be held liable for copyright violations, or criminal activity?
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Offline werecow

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2017, 05:37:24 PM »
If the ISPs begin favoring content for payment, I wonder if they can then be held liable for copyright violations, or criminal activity?

I'm pretty sure the RIAA and MPAA have been ringing that bell for years... But now all p2p, torrent and newgroup traffic will probably just be relegated to the slow lanes anyway, seeing as that's a huge percentage of the traffic that ISPs have to deal with.
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Offline PANTS!

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2017, 05:44:08 PM »
If the ISPs begin favoring content for payment, I wonder if they can then be held liable for copyright violations, or criminal activity?

I'm pretty sure the RIAA and MPAA have been ringing that bell for years... But now all p2p, torrent and newgroup traffic will probably just be relegated to the slow lanes anyway, seeing as that's a huge percentage of the traffic that ISPs have to deal with.

Yeah, but then there is you tube.
Now where I come from
We don't let society tell us how it's supposed to be
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We cross our bridges when we come to them and burn them behind us, with nothing to show for our progress except a memory of the smell of smoke, and a presumption that once our eyes watered.

Offline werecow

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2017, 06:15:56 PM »
If the ISPs begin favoring content for payment, I wonder if they can then be held liable for copyright violations, or criminal activity?

I'm pretty sure the RIAA and MPAA have been ringing that bell for years... But now all p2p, torrent and newgroup traffic will probably just be relegated to the slow lanes anyway, seeing as that's a huge percentage of the traffic that ISPs have to deal with.

Yeah, but then there is you tube.

True, but they're already forced to take down anything that infringes on any copyrighted items. The same can't be said for torrent sites or p2p. And they can negotiate with google at least to some extent, but probably not with the pirate bay.
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2017, 07:49:15 PM »
Not at all surprising.

https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/06/06/new-mozilla-poll-americans-political-parties-overwhelmingly-support-net-neutrality/
Quote
— Respondents across the political spectrum (78%) believe that equal access to the Internet is a right, with large majorities of Democrats (88%), Independents (71%), and Republicans (67%) in agreement

— Respondents have little trust in government institutions to protect their access to the Internet. The highest levels of distrust were reported for the Trump administration (70%), Congress (78%) and the FCC (58%)

— When it comes to corporations protecting access to the Internet, 54% of respondents distrust ISPs

— Americans view net neutrality as having a positive impact on most of society. Respondents said it is a “good thing” for small businesses (70%), individuals (69%), innovators (65%) and ISPs (55%), but fewer think that it will benefit big businesses (46%)
Yet another example of why America is not a democracy.

In a plutocracy, those with the money get to decide the rules. And they will always choose those rules that make them richer. That's all this is. This is a bunch of rich people with a lot of money setting the rules that will allow them to profit the most in defiance of the wishes of the people. Plutocracy.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2017, 09:21:52 AM »
I filed my comment. Interestingly, when I started to type in gofccyourself, the drop down Google auto-complete suggestions all had wrong domain extensions: .clm, .ccom, .fom, .come. Clearly, somebody wants to prevent people from reaching www.gofccyourself.com. Whether that's Google, or somebody gaming Google by typing in those wrong URLs enough times to make them come up as search suggestions, I don't know. I suspect the latter. I've never encountered this sort of obfuscation in auto-complete search suggestions before.

I didn't get the real one in the auto-complete suggestion list until I had actually visited the site, and Google had my history of typing in the right one. That's why I think it's not Google doing the obfuscation. There are sites Google will not include in the suggestion list, but they don't insert bogus URLs to try to divert you away from a real one. They just don't offer it as a suggestion.
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Offline Billzbub

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Re: Net Neutrality ?
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2017, 02:34:42 PM »
Yet another example of why America is not a democracy.

In a plutocracy, those with the money get to decide the rules. And they will always choose those rules that make them richer. That's all this is. This is a bunch of rich people with a lot of money setting the rules that will allow them to profit the most in defiance of the wishes of the people. Plutocracy.

Thankfully, the federal government will keep those rich people in check...oh...wait... :'(
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