Author Topic: Episode #614  (Read 1641 times)

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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2017, 01:11:14 PM »
It's interesting to me that I've heard the Ginger v. Mary Ann discussion held several times in mixed company and the women present always express disbelief at the overwhelming preference for Mary Ann.  One woman insisted that any man who expressed a preference for Mary Ann was lying.
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Offline 2397

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2017, 02:07:10 PM »
Difference being that women see who they want to be, vs. men see who they want to be with?

I've never watched the show, btw.

Offline Friendly Angel

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2017, 02:45:05 PM »
It's interesting to me that I've heard the Ginger v. Mary Ann discussion held several times in mixed company and the women present always express disbelief at the overwhelming preference for Mary Ann.  One woman insisted that any man who expressed a preference for Mary Ann was lying.

Fascinating!

I wonder if there's a male equivalent... whether or not from the same show and whether or not women play the same kind of game.  Who would be Mary Ann and who would be Ginger?

A celebrity who is good-looking but always glamorous and formal - never seen without perfect grooming and tailored suit.

And a celebrity who is good-looking but always in torn jeans, informal, and relaxed; wouldn't fit in at a black tie affair no matter what.
Amend and resubmit.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2017, 05:35:11 PM »
It's interesting to me that I've heard the Ginger v. Mary Ann discussion held several times in mixed company and the women present always express disbelief at the overwhelming preference for Mary Ann.  One woman insisted that any man who expressed a preference for Mary Ann was lying.

Fascinating!

I wonder if there's a male equivalent... whether or not from the same show and whether or not women play the same kind of game.  Who would be Mary Ann and who would be Ginger?

A celebrity who is good-looking but always glamorous and formal - never seen without perfect grooming and tailored suit.

And a celebrity who is good-looking but always in torn jeans, informal, and relaxed; wouldn't fit in at a black tie affair no matter what.

I don't think there's a parallel in Gilligan's Island. (BTW, I watched the show when it originally aired and I would have been around 16 years old.) There's the fat and incompetent captain, the silly and weird-looking Gilligan, and the dorky professor. I always liked the professor because I fancied myself a future scientist. But my view of Gilligan was always influenced by the character of Maynard G. Krebbs, who I always liked, from the earlier Dobbie Gillis show. Maynard was a beatnik in ratty clothing who had a severe allergy to any kind of work. The title character from that show fell head over heels in love with a different pretty girl every week. I presume the constant stream of pretty girls was the reason adolescent boys watched that one.

There may be parallels on the other side from other shows, but the use of women as sex symbols has long been a staple in our culture, so that kind of contrast might be harder to find for male characters.

When I was in the Grand Forks, N.D., county jail, I was very surprised by the popularity of soap operas. I never expected that that demographic (mostly men in their 20's and 30's) watched soap operas. I decided it was because of the girls on the shows.
Daniel
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Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2017, 06:25:48 PM »
...and the great majority who are just having fun with a mind game, don't really believe any of it, but get a kick out of making the rest of us pull our hair out in frustration as they invent answers to every objection.

I don't pretend to know what the ratio of true believers to trolls is, but I have seen enough trolls of this type on reddit and 4chan over the years to not discount their dedication to a completely superfluous cause.
I could see it building steam that way, but I think the explosion in number are true believers, and it does seem to have taken off in the last year. Which makes sense as NBA players are now professing belief in it so it's hitting kind of a cultural zenith. I suspect though that it will also peter out before long as it will never "deliver the goods" as they say. I do see some common personality traits among those who I personally have seen get sucked in though; namely hubris/egocentrism, a profound lack of critical education, and a tendency towards contrarianism.
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Offline Friendly Angel

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2017, 06:41:56 PM »
I don't think there's a parallel in Gilligan's Island.

Oh, I didn't mean the same show as Ginger and Mary Ann, I meant two guys on the same show, like Friends or something.

Like Cary Grant vs Brando
Amend and resubmit.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2017, 08:50:28 PM »
I don't think there's a parallel in Gilligan's Island.

Oh, I didn't mean the same show as Ginger and Mary Ann, I meant two guys on the same show, like Friends or something.

Like Cary Grant vs Brando

Yeah I get that's what you're saying. Shortly after the era of Gilligan's Island I went off to school and have not had a TV since, except for a few years in Mexico when my furnished apartment had one, and I enjoyed watching old Mexican movies from "the golden age of Mexican cinema." People like Cantinflas, Relampago, Lola la Trailera, Capulina y Viruta, etc.

So most post-Gilligan TV references are lost on me. I have watched a few shows on DVD. But not many.
Daniel
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Offline DamoET

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2017, 03:25:33 PM »
OMFG, Flat Earthers ???

My brother is a legitimate "Born again, Flat Earther with a Jesus complex.

  I have beat my head against that wall for a while, trying to show him with scientific  facts.  He rejects them all.  So as 'a good skeptic', I put myself in his shoes and thought about how we actually see the world, and what could possibly be an indicator of doubt using basic observation only.  I came up with what I though were 3 rock solid, no question, observations that anyone could make and verify for themselves.

#1,
  You can observe the full disk of the sun rising up over the horizon.  If the sun were only 5,000km above the surface of the Earth and always above the horizon, even with the 'apparently  ::)" horizon vanishing point, the sun should appear as a point of light, not a disk as it demonstrably does.

#2,
  The doppler effect.  If the sun is at a fixed height above the Earth's surface, the passage of the sun would change its apparent speed across the sky.  If the sky was to be separated into 12 even slices, the sun should not take 1/12 of the daylight hours to pass through each segment, but 'shock horror' it does.

#3,
  Planes can be seen to fly past and below the horizon when looking out to sea from ground level and at the exact same time, be still visible from a elevated position such as a 30 story building.  Also, the detail in clouds can be seen against the edge of the horizon of the sea without them blurring into a vanishing point.


All these 3 points were rejected out of hand.  He has no interest in considering that he may be wrong, yet I am "Close minded!"



Damo
   
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 03:26:40 PM by DamoET »
Do not fear God, fear ignorance.  For ignorance will lead you to fearing 'God' (and a whole bunch of other whacky shit!)

Offline seamas

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2017, 06:11:05 PM »
It's actually difficult to wrap my mind around a flat earth concept.

They believe the moon and the sun are discs--or flat-as well?

How or why does the moon have phases?

What is causing tides? (with no gravity?)

What causes seasons?
I mean if the earth is flat, why are days longer in the summer?

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2017, 10:34:13 AM »
To be a true flat-Earther (as opposed to pretending, as a game) you simply have to reject all reason. We understand the world around us by applying reason to observation. If you reject reason, then the observations are irrelevant. So what if the moon has phases? They are there to confuse scientists. So what if the sun or the airplane or the ship's sail, that's just to confuse you. Just as the creationist thinks that God or Satan put fossils in the ground to confound people who refuse to have blind faith.

I still think that most flat-Earthers are just pretending, because they enjoy making you hit your head against the wall, or they think that inventing silly excuses is a fun game.

My reply to flat-Earthers is to say that, no, the Earth is not flat, it's a sphere, but we are on the inside. Similarly, if someone says space aliens built the pyramids, I reply that, no, it wasn't space aliens, it was the Loch Ness monster who built them, by telekinesis, without ever leaving her Loch. And my reply to young-Earthers is to say, no, the Earth is not 6,000 years old: The FSM created the world seven days ago, including you and all of us with false memories of having lived our lives up to that time.

The only answer to bullshit is better bullshit.

Of course, you still need to educate people so they don't fall into those traps in the first place.
Daniel
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Offline 2397

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2017, 02:22:11 PM »
If you wish to be a flat-Earther, first you must invent the universe. And set it up some different rules.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2017, 02:38:55 PM »
If you wish to be a flat-Earther, first you must invent the universe. And set it up some different rules.

It's been done, and very well done, IMO. I'm up to book 5 at present.
Daniel
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Offline DamoET

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2017, 03:24:44 PM »
It's actually difficult to wrap my mind around a flat earth concept.

They believe the moon and the sun are discs--or flat-as well?

How or why does the moon have phases?

What is causing tides? (with no gravity?)

What causes seasons?
I mean if the earth is flat, why are days longer in the summer?

  For my brother, the moon and sun are discs.  The moon generates its own light and doesn't rely on reflected sunlight (I mean how could it ;)).  The seasons are as they are because  the sun's orbit/rotation on the sky changes over the year which gives a more direct angle during summer and the longer days.  I'm not sure about the answer to the tides one?


  Another one on my 'captain obvious list' is the Celestial poles.  At night in the most of the southern hemishpere, you can observe the sky rotating around a fix point in the sky.  That doesn't match the FE model.




  Even though the attempt to reason with someone like a Flat Earther may be pointless, it can really work your own understanding into shape.  Same for another mate  ::), who is a climate change denier.



Damo

Do not fear God, fear ignorance.  For ignorance will lead you to fearing 'God' (and a whole bunch of other whacky shit!)

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2017, 04:25:21 PM »
Note also that when talking about flat-Earthers, they are a very heterogeneous bunch. You'd be hard-pressed to find two who have the same idea of how it's supposed to work. Unless both are parroting the same guru, and even then they might disagree on what the guru says. Especially since they contradict themselves so much that even the followers of the same flat-Earth guru might come away with very different explanations.

A wise flat-Earther (if there is such a thing) would probably just say it's "turtles all the way down" and leave it at that.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline seamas

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Re: Episode #614
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2017, 11:10:39 AM »
It's actually difficult to wrap my mind around a flat earth concept.

They believe the moon and the sun are discs--or flat-as well?

How or why does the moon have phases?

What is causing tides? (with no gravity?)

What causes seasons?
I mean if the earth is flat, why are days longer in the summer?

  For my brother, the moon and sun are discs.  The moon generates its own light and doesn't rely on reflected sunlight (I mean how could it ;)).  The seasons are as they are because  the sun's orbit/rotation on the sky changes over the year which gives a more direct angle during summer and the longer days.  I'm not sure about the answer to the tides one?


  Another one on my 'captain obvious list' is the Celestial poles.  At night in the most of the southern hemishpere, you can observe the sky rotating around a fix point in the sky.  That doesn't match the FE model.




  Even though the attempt to reason with someone like a Flat Earther may be pointless, it can really work your own understanding into shape.  Same for another mate  ::), who is a climate change denier.



Damo

I've heard the thing about the moon emitting its own light, but can't see how they rationalize having full, crescent, quarter and new moons if it is a disc.

I've heard that flat earthers create charts that account for the movement of the sun, moon and stars, but they are incredibly complex and none of them could work.
Just charting Mars and Venus in their scheme is ridiculously complicated.

It's funny that they have a need to "see" the world exactly how their most primitive senses perceive them, but in order to do that they need a completely irrational and untenable and complex system to do this.

I still don't get how seasons work on a flat earth.

 

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