Author Topic: Fasting Mimicking Diet  (Read 2623 times)

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Offline ozaytheyellow

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Fasting Mimicking Diet
« on: April 17, 2017, 02:31:01 AM »
Hello everyone!
Long time listener, and new to the forums. I don't usually join forums, but I registered because I wanted to see if this topic had been discussed before here. The search resulted in no hits, so here goes:

I am pretty sure I am heading towards diabetes and as I was researching I stumbled upon this:
https://prolonfmd.com/fasting-mimicking-diet
Actually, I found an article talking about it first, but it led me there.
As far as my limited understanding of it goes, it looks promising but my non-experience at looking into these studies has me at a disadvantage.
I don't plan on buying from the website, there are a few recipes around the internet that mimic what the website is selling and will probably try with that first.

What do you, SGU hivemind, think of the validity in this?

I appreciate any insight that can be had!

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Fasting Mimicking Diet
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2017, 09:53:50 AM »
Looks like woo to me. You're eating food but your body does not recognize that you're eating? So it does not engage in digestion? The nutrients that they claim the diet has are not absorbed? You get no actual calories from all this "healthy" food?

If you think you are heading towards diabetes, I recommend seeing a doctor. (NOT a naturopath!) If you are overweight you'll need to lose weight. If you are sedentary, you'll probably need to exercise. If you smoke you should quit. Eating healthy food is very good, but you don't need a fly-by-night meal-delivery company for that. You just need to visit the fruit and vegetable section of your grocery store, and maybe fill less of your cart from the cookies & potato chips aisle.
Daniel
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Offline estockly

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Re: Fasting Mimicking Diet
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2017, 11:42:40 AM »
On nutrition and weight loss the advice you get from most doctors these days is probably just as bad, if not worse, than the advice from naturopaths.

It's just not something they study. 

As for this plan, I'd avoid it. It seems like a way to monetize diet advice. If you want to avoid T2D, nothing has been found to be more effective than a LCHF ketogenic diet.


Your mileage may vary.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.


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Offline Friendly Angel

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Re: Fasting Mimicking Diet
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2017, 11:45:40 AM »
On nutrition and weight loss the advice you get from most doctors these days is probably just as bad, if not worse, than the advice from naturopaths.

It's just not something they study. 

Maybe not, but what they do is refer you to a nutritionist and diabetes educator.  https://www.diabeteseducator.org/
Those folks know their stuff... and they're cheaper than doctors.
Amend and resubmit.

Offline estockly

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Re: Fasting Mimicking Diet
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2017, 12:06:38 PM »
On nutrition and weight loss the advice you get from most doctors these days is probably just as bad, if not worse, than the advice from naturopaths.

It's just not something they study. 

Maybe not, but what they do is refer you to a nutritionist and diabetes educator.  https://www.diabeteseducator.org/
Those folks know their stuff... and they're cheaper than doctors.

This is true. They do refer you to nutritionists and diabetes educators. And they indeed to know "their stuff."

But their stuff is not based on science.

What little science they cite to support their claims and practices came long after they began making their claims and doing their interventions; their most fundamental claims (avoid dietary cholesterol; avoid sodium; avoid saturated fats) have been debunked for years, yet they are only now starting to modify their practice and even then it's too little too late. Other claims and practices (eat whole grains; keep carbs at 45 to 65% of caloric intakes; follow a low-fat diet; avoid red meat) have also been debunked or were never supported by good science, and yet they show no sign of modifying their practices.

and Donald Trump is President of the United States.


"Well, sometimes the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't." -- Chief Dan George, "Little Big Man"

Offline Johnny Slick

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Re: Fasting Mimicking Diet
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2017, 12:24:16 PM »
I just don't think there's an easy fix. If you want to lose weight, you need to burn more calories than you take in. Usually that's going to make you hungry or tired or both and these are perfectly natural reactions by your body to the situation you're putting it in. All I can say is that once you reach stasis it'll get a lot easier. Also, there are drugs out there that make you feel less hungry, so that might be a thing to try (on a *really* short term basis though; stimulants tend to have some really nasty side effects, especially if you abuse them) (although caffeine is one of those drugs). There are also diets like low-carb that restrict your food choices and as such make it harder to consume a lot of calories (low-carb can have a pretty big effect just because it makes you stay away from some of the worst sources of empty calories there are in the form of sweets and starchy foods) but you're going to be faced with the calories in, calories out conundrum. This particular site looks pretty BSy to me, no offense.
Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.

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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Fasting Mimicking Diet
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2017, 01:13:49 PM »
The assertion that LCHF is healthy, is a controversial one, with most health professionals recommending a balanced diet, and a few outliers recommending LCHF and asserting that the health profession is uneducated or unscientific. There are also a few outliers at the other end recommending a low-fat diet, though that was more popular a few decades ago.

The conservation of energy is a bitch if you're trying to lose weight. Calories are a measure of the energy in food, and that energy has to go somewhere. You can poop it out undigested, but that's a tiny part of the calories you eat; you can burn it through metabolism; or you can store it as fat.

Increasing exercise is the healthy way to burn more calories, and has other benefits besides. There are chemical ways to increase metabolism but they are fraught with very nasty side effects and are addictive. At the very least, when you stop taking them the effect is reversed, your metabolism drops way down, and you gain back all the weight you lost.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline Johnny Slick

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Re: Fasting Mimicking Diet
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2017, 01:51:36 PM »
The assertion that LCHF is healthy, is a controversial one, with most health professionals recommending a balanced diet, and a few outliers recommending LCHF and asserting that the health profession is uneducated or unscientific. There are also a few outliers at the other end recommending a low-fat diet, though that was more popular a few decades ago.

The conservation of energy is a bitch if you're trying to lose weight. Calories are a measure of the energy in food, and that energy has to go somewhere. You can poop it out undigested, but that's a tiny part of the calories you eat; you can burn it through metabolism; or you can store it as fat.

Increasing exercise is the healthy way to burn more calories, and has other benefits besides. There are chemical ways to increase metabolism but they are fraught with very nasty side effects and are addictive. At the very least, when you stop taking them the effect is reversed, your metabolism drops way down, and you gain back all the weight you lost.
I think the controversial bit is that by getting into ketosis you enter this magical weight-losing paradigm in which you can eat all the steak you want or something and not lose weight. It's not *terribly* controversial that if you go to extreme measures to restrict your calories, you'll lose weight if you consume less than you use up. And anecdotally I've known a few guys who lost a *lot* of weight on Atkins. I do think that it has many of the same issues that other diets have - namely, that if you just use it to lose weight and then go off of it, you're probably going to gain that weight right back - but in the sense that it gets people to eat less, sure, it seems to work pretty well.

Also, it is all but impossible to lose weight only or primarily by exercising more. If you're very overweight and you can't work out strenuously for more than let's say half an hour, you might only burn 2-300 calories compared to your resting metabolism. And to make matters worse, it's been shown time and time again that people who work out, especially those who are kind of new to working out, tend to cut corners at other things (for instance, taking the elevator instead of walking up the stairs) so that a lot of the benefit of the exercise is mitigated. I mean, you *also* can't just expect to lose weight by dropping to 1000 calories a day - all a starvation diet is going to do is mess up your metabolism - but at the very least you need to do *both* the exercise and the diet if you want to lose weight, and I guess if you really, really wanted to dump one of them (which you shouldn't IMO). The ideal way, I guess, is to get yourself to a point that's close enough to stasis that you don't feel hungry all the time (or for that matter send your body crashing into starvation mode) but maybe still just a bit below and then just let the weight come off over time. We don't really live in a culture that approves of that, though, so it's tough.

Personally, I'm generally a fan of the idea that people should be more active just because it allows you to do more things in general. This applies whether you're morbidly obese or if you're HWP. Finding stuff that burns calories and elevates your heart rate is sometimes not easy and not fun but I think that most people would benefit from doing more of it.
Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.

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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Fasting Mimicking Diet
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2017, 02:40:13 PM »
Apparently, if you are sufficiently motivated to lose weight, pretty much any diet will work. As noted above, you just have to eat fewer calories than you burn. And of course, it's generally necessary to cut calories and exercise, both.

But there are people (including at least two regulars here) who assert that LCHF is a healthy diet overall, regardless of whether you're trying to lose weight or not. This is what I was referring to when I said that most health professionals disagree, and the LCHF proponents assert that such professionals are uneducated or unscientific.

Most dieters fail in the long term. Successful weight loss requires lifestyle changes, not diet plans.
Daniel
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-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline estockly

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Re: Fasting Mimicking Diet
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2017, 02:58:43 PM »
The assertion that LCHF is healthy, is a controversial one, with most health professionals recommending a balanced diet, and a few outliers recommending LCHF and asserting that the health profession is uneducated or unscientific.

Not sure how you can measure consensus here. There are a large number of health practitioners who are advocating LCHF diets. The ADA is including it in recommendations as a weightless strategy. It's the Low Fat diehard outliers (Dean Ornish) who are the only ones claiming it's unhealthy.

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and a few outliers recommending LCHF and asserting that the health profession is uneducated or unscientific.

In the field of nutrition. And the claim is supported by looking at the science. We embarked on a population-wide intervention without good science to support it (The Dietary Guidelines) and the result has been a hockey-stick like spike in rates of overweight; obesity; and T2D. Those guidelines and the practice of dietitians (who are not scientist and not health professionals) was not supported by science then or now or ever.

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The conservation of energy is a bitch if you're trying to lose weight. Calories are a measure of the energy in food, and that energy has to go somewhere. You can poop it out undigested, but that's a tiny part of the calories you eat; you can burn it through metabolism; or you can store it as fat.

The idea you can poop out calories is very misleading. When the caloric content of food as reported on the labels is based on the Atwater values which account for the amount of calories in poop, urine, sweat, respiration, etc.

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or you can store it as fat.

You can also build muscle and other lean tissue and store it that way.

Quote
Increasing exercise is the healthy way to burn more calories, and has other benefits besides.

Exercise is great for many health issues, but it's just not an effective way to burn more calories.

Quote
There are chemical ways to increase metabolism but they are fraught with very nasty side effects and are addictive. At the very least, when you stop taking them the effect is reversed, your metabolism drops way down, and you gain back all the weight you lost.


That's true. Both my sister and I went on Fenn/Phen for a time and both went off it before it was too late. A friend from high school died from heart damage caused by that diet drug. (She was trying to lose weight for our class reunion)

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At the very least, when you stop taking them the effect is reversed, your metabolism drops way down, and you gain back all the weight you lost.

That is true for nearly every weightloss  strategy (including LCHF). To lose weight and keep it off one needs to make a lifelong lifestyle change.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.


"Well, sometimes the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't." -- Chief Dan George, "Little Big Man"

Offline Johnny Slick

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Re: Fasting Mimicking Diet
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2017, 04:55:12 PM »
Apparently, if you are sufficiently motivated to lose weight, pretty much any diet will work. As noted above, you just have to eat fewer calories than you burn. And of course, it's generally necessary to cut calories and exercise, both.

But there are people (including at least two regulars here) who assert that LCHF is a healthy diet overall, regardless of whether you're trying to lose weight or not. This is what I was referring to when I said that most health professionals disagree, and the LCHF proponents assert that such professionals are uneducated or unscientific.

Most dieters fail in the long term. Successful weight loss requires lifestyle changes, not diet plans.
Well, yeah, and that's why we're responding here, because if we don't then those two will just troll up the thread some more and make it look like skepticism = LCHF. I will say that I don't know that health professionals are necessarily saying that it's *unhealthy* either (although it probably is for some populations), just that it's not necessarily the *only* healthy choice when it comes to diet.
Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Offline estockly

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Re: Fasting Mimicking Diet
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2017, 05:44:43 PM »
Apparently, if you are sufficiently motivated to lose weight, pretty much any diet will work. As noted above, you just have to eat fewer calories than you burn. And of course, it's generally necessary to cut calories and exercise, both.

But there are people (including at least two regulars here) who assert that LCHF is a healthy diet overall, regardless of whether you're trying to lose weight or not. This is what I was referring to when I said that most health professionals disagree, and the LCHF proponents assert that such professionals are uneducated or unscientific.

Most dieters fail in the long term. Successful weight loss requires lifestyle changes, not diet plans.
Well, yeah, and that's why we're responding here, because if we don't then those two will just troll up the thread some more and make it look like skepticism = LCHF.

I don't know what you're saying here. We can move the discussion to the LC diet ghetto threads or keep going here. 

Skeptisim is not equal to LCHF diets. There are plenty of LCHF advocates who I wouldn't call skeptics at all.

But I don't think a skeptic can be a believer in the theory and practice of diet and nutrition that dietitians are following in the US today, which adheres to the the previous (out dated) version of the USDA dietary guidelines and provides advice with zero support from science.

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I will say that I don't know that health professionals are necessarily saying that it's *unhealthy* either (although it probably is for some populations), just that it's not necessarily the *only* healthy choice when it comes to diet.

I don't think I've ever said it was the *only* healthy choice when it comes to diet in general or even weightloss diet specifically. I have said for nearly everyone it's most likely to be the healthiest and most likely to be the most effective and should be the default option diet option provided.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.


"Well, sometimes the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't." -- Chief Dan George, "Little Big Man"

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Fasting Mimicking Diet
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2017, 08:08:26 PM »
Like I said, some folks here advocate LCHF. On this board they are a minority. Two, I think. Maybe three. Among the health professionals I have spoken with, none advocate either low-fat or LCHF. All advocate a middle ground, i.e. a balanced diet. And for weight loss, all advocate a combination of eating less and exercising more.
Daniel
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Offline estockly

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Re: Fasting Mimicking Diet
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2017, 08:19:59 PM »
Like I said, some folks here advocate LCHF. On this board they are a minority. Two, I think. Maybe three. Among the health professionals I have spoken with, none advocate either low-fat or LCHF. All advocate a middle ground, i.e. a balanced diet. And for weight loss, all advocate a combination of eating less and exercising more.

None of this is relevant, of course. How many LCHF advocates are in these forums; your perception of how many; the number of health professionals you've spoken with are anecdotes of second and third hand evidence.

and Donald Trump is President of the United States.


"Well, sometimes the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't." -- Chief Dan George, "Little Big Man"

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Fasting Mimicking Diet
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2017, 12:29:46 PM »
Like I said, some folks here advocate LCHF. On this board they are a minority. Two, I think. Maybe three. Among the health professionals I have spoken with, none advocate either low-fat or LCHF. All advocate a middle ground, i.e. a balanced diet. And for weight loss, all advocate a combination of eating less and exercising more.

None of this is relevant, of course. How many LCHF advocates are in these forums; your perception of how many; the number of health professionals you've spoken with are anecdotes of second and third hand evidence.



It's true that the number of LCHF advocates on this forum does not prove anything. But it is telling that among a community of skeptics, so few buy into the notion that all the major health organizations are so completely wrong on such an important matter.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck