Author Topic: The Orville  (Read 14928 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Eternally Learning

  • Master Mr. a.k.a. Methodical Loaf
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 8994
  • Break a leg, badger!
    • Get Past The 140 Character Limit!
Re: The Orville
« Reply #225 on: February 08, 2019, 08:30:08 AM »
The difference between episodic television and serialized TV shows is not that Episodic shows are 100% self contained stories within each episode.  If that were the case, TOS wouldn't qualify either because later episodes relied at least partly on the audience's awareness of who these characters were and what the setting was, and that knowledge grew as the show went on.  What defines serialized television is that the new episode is a direct continuation of the plot from the previous episode and directly leads into the plot of the next.  Obviously, reality is messy and there are elements of serialized TV in episodic shows and vice versa, but it generally just boils down to whether the season tells one big story or several individual ones.

Offline werecow

  • Cryptobovinologist
  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4647
  • mooh
Re: The Orville
« Reply #226 on: February 08, 2019, 09:43:29 AM »
The difference between episodic television and serialized TV shows is not that Episodic shows are 100% self contained stories within each episode.  If that were the case, TOS wouldn't qualify either because later episodes relied at least partly on the audience's awareness of who these characters were and what the setting was, and that knowledge grew as the show went on.  What defines serialized television is that the new episode is a direct continuation of the plot from the previous episode and directly leads into the plot of the next.  Obviously, reality is messy and there are elements of serialized TV in episodic shows and vice versa, but it generally just boils down to whether the season tells one big story or several individual ones.

Sure, but so far, this looks to be more of a hybrid between the two than TOS or even TNG. The episodic format works well for the comedic and SF aspect of it, but for the drama and action I tend to prefer the serialized format because there tends to be more character development, the stakes can be raised without it feeling too rushed, and the plots can be fleshed out over several episodes.
Mooohn!

Offline Eternally Learning

  • Master Mr. a.k.a. Methodical Loaf
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 8994
  • Break a leg, badger!
    • Get Past The 140 Character Limit!
Re: The Orville
« Reply #227 on: February 08, 2019, 10:18:58 AM »
I dunno, the only story that even comes close to being serialized is Ed and Kelly's divorce and subsequent moving on and they seem to be (thankfully) moving on from that being a major part of the show in this season. Every other inter-episode arc is dispersed widely over a season so far and is basically like TNG did call-backs and character evolution but a little bit more.  I mean you have the Krill, which are an arc in about the same way the Borg were, you have Bortas and Klyden's relationship, which has appeared in only a handful of episodes, and Penny and Isaac's relationship which was more or less background noise until last week.  The main difference in those arcs is that the happened a bit quicker than they would have in TNG, but in form they are pretty similar.

That all said, this to me is a great way to update TNG's style of storytelling a bit while avoiding going full-on serial with season-long main plots that drive each episode like Discovery has. I didn't realize how much I'd missed lighter-hearted, episodic TV until the Orville.

Offline werecow

  • Cryptobovinologist
  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4647
  • mooh
Re: The Orville
« Reply #228 on: February 08, 2019, 01:45:16 PM »
I dunno, the only story that even comes close to being serialized is Ed and Kelly's divorce and subsequent moving on and they seem to be (thankfully) moving on from that being a major part of the show in this season. Every other inter-episode arc is dispersed widely over a season so far and is basically like TNG did call-backs and character evolution but a little bit more.  I mean you have the Krill, which are an arc in about the same way the Borg were, you have Bortas and Klyden's relationship, which has appeared in only a handful of episodes, and Penny and Isaac's relationship which was more or less background noise until last week.  The main difference in those arcs is that the happened a bit quicker than they would have in TNG, but in form they are pretty similar.

Hm, yeah, maybe the "bit quicker" is what I'm referring to. Maybe my memory is just hazy, but iirc in TNG you had similar arcs, but it often took a very long time to get back to any of them (even if you had as many multi-episode arcs or callbacks per season, seasons were also nearly twice as long) and most of the time the events of one week's episode had next to zero effect on what happened the next week. In this show I get a somewhat greater sense of continuity, not just because of the Krill arc and the multiple interpersonal relationships1 but because even in "episodic episodes" it feels like there is a bit more lasting character development, or the dynamics between the characters changes more based on what happened the last time we saw them together, or there are simply some more comments or jokes about what happened in a recent episode. There was definitely character development in TNG, but most of the time it felt to me like it took a back seat compared to the SF parts of the story. Could just be my memory failing me but it does fit the way a lot of TV shows were done back in the 90s.

1The one thing I never liked about the Trek multiverse is that even the humans often seemed alien to me in that they were too idealized and - given the progressive nature of the show, and the fact that I was in puberty when that show ran - oddly sexless - I still can't imagine most of the characters as anything other than smooth Ken & Barbie dolls. }|:op
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 01:51:03 PM by werecow »
Mooohn!

Offline brilligtove

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 6953
  • Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity, you deal with.
Re: The Orville
« Reply #229 on: February 08, 2019, 05:21:00 PM »
Episodic: Use a random number generator to select viewing order. Works fine.
Serial: Watch in chronological order or be lost AF.

ST:TNG had MOTW (Monster Of The Week) episodes that would fit anywhere in that season, if not the series. They also had serialized episodes that only make sense in order. I'm not sure if Orville has any eps that are truely standalone within a season since they talk about relationships so much.
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Offline superdave

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5923
Re: The Orville
« Reply #230 on: February 10, 2019, 10:25:06 AM »
I really doubt anyone would be truly lost though...worst case scenario 2 minutes of wikipedia would bring you up to speed.
I disavow anyone in the movement involved in any illegal,unethical, sexist, or racist behavior. However, I don't have the energy or time to investigate each person and case, and a lack of individual disavowals for each incident should not be construed as condoning such behavior.

Offline brilligtove

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 6953
  • Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity, you deal with.
Re: The Orville
« Reply #231 on: February 10, 2019, 01:26:15 PM »
I really doubt anyone would be truly lost though...worst case scenario 2 minutes of wikipedia would bring you up to speed.

Wikipedia didn't exist when TNG was first run in 1987. Having serial TV meant you had to watch every episode or be lost. I bet the internet has been part of the shift.
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Offline Eternally Learning

  • Master Mr. a.k.a. Methodical Loaf
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 8994
  • Break a leg, badger!
    • Get Past The 140 Character Limit!
Re: The Orville
« Reply #232 on: February 10, 2019, 01:43:30 PM »
I don't see how any episodes of the Orville have been worse in that regard than say I Borg, Brothers, any of the Q episodes after Farpoint, Journey's End, and on and on.  You act like recurring characters, references to previous episodes, and continuity of setting and story are strictly inventions of the last 15-20 years. 

I think a better test for episodic vs serialized is whether or not the show could be syndicated out of order without confusing the hell out of people.  Breaking Bad, no way.  BSG, maybe some episodes.  TNG, absolutely yes (that's how I started watching it).  The Orville, I say yes as well.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 01:47:34 PM by Eternally Learning »

Offline Paul Blevins Jr.

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 338
Re: The Orville
« Reply #233 on: February 12, 2019, 08:26:45 AM »
I'm perplexed as to why there was a re-run last week. Not a pre-emption for a sporting event or awards show, but a repeat of an episode barely over a month old. And this during February, a sweeps month the ratings from which networks use to set ad rates for the rest of the year (other sweeps months being May, July, and November). You don't air a re-run during sweeps! That's when you air your biggest episodes, finales, or two-parters (Orville does have a two-parter coming up after next week).
 

Offline brilligtove

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 6953
  • Ignorance can be cured. Stupidity, you deal with.
Re: The Orville
« Reply #234 on: February 12, 2019, 11:31:21 AM »
I'm perplexed as to why there was a re-run last week. Not a pre-emption for a sporting event or awards show, but a repeat of an episode barely over a month old. And this during February, a sweeps month the ratings from which networks use to set ad rates for the rest of the year (other sweeps months being May, July, and November). You don't air a re-run during sweeps! That's when you air your biggest episodes, finales, or two-parters (Orville does have a two-parter coming up after next week).
 

Fox kills good shows?
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Online CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 10455
Re: The Orville
« Reply #235 on: February 12, 2019, 12:57:04 PM »
I'm perplexed as to why there was a re-run last week. Not a pre-emption for a sporting event or awards show, but a repeat of an episode barely over a month old. And this during February, a sweeps month the ratings from which networks use to set ad rates for the rest of the year (other sweeps months being May, July, and November). You don't air a re-run during sweeps! That's when you air your biggest episodes, finales, or two-parters (Orville does have a two-parter coming up after next week).
 

Sweeps measure local ratings, not national ratings. National ratings are sampled daily and weekly.

But airing a re-run doesn't probably doesn't help you local affiliates boost their evening news ratings.

They have a lot of weeks left in the season and limited number of episodes left, they may prefer to have a run of new episodes leading up to the season finale rather than drop a repeat in March or April.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline Paul Blevins Jr.

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 338
Re: The Orville
« Reply #236 on: February 22, 2019, 03:33:16 PM »
"Identity" Pt. 1

Well. We totally called that plot twist, didn't we guys? Can't believe there are actually people who were surprised. Must not read or watch a lot of Science Fiction!

Some non-spoilers (or at least minor spoilers) thoughts:

*Wait! The Orville can land?!? Well, it is  smller than the Enterprise and a little more aerodynamic...but why? That's what shuttlecraft are for!  And it doesn't really land, but docks with one of those towering techno-spires.

*How is there a breathable atmosphere for the Orville crew breath without environment suits on Kraylon? It appears that the planet is entire covered in machinery, which makes sense for a planet of AIs. No plant life anywhere.  Where's the oxygen coming from? Why would there be any, the AIs don't need it so why would they care?
 
*I have more thoughts, but they fall into major spoiler territory so I'll wait a  bit. I just hope they don't hit the total re-set button with a major character next week. There should be long term and dire consequences for him as a result of all this.


« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 03:36:50 PM by Paul Blevins Jr. »

Offline PANTS!

  • One leg at a time.
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11470
  • What seals? I auditioned for this job.
Re: The Orville
« Reply #237 on: February 22, 2019, 03:36:59 PM »
I mean everybody knows that when you  nuke a Hi-Tech City the Nanorobots take over the planet.

And yeah, you could be a little bit more lax on the sliders but they still can overheat the planet and destroy their civilization through global warming.
Now where I come from
We don't let society tell us how it's supposed to be
-Uptown, Prince 👉

The world is on its elbows and knees
It's forgotten the message and worships the creeds

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 8869
  • Cache rules everything around me.
Re: The Orville
« Reply #238 on: February 22, 2019, 03:56:33 PM »
Maybe they'll find some backdoor vulnerability and turn the entire race into Isaacs.  Homogeneity means everyone has the same vulnerabilities.  Diversity saves the day?

*How is there a breathable atmosphere for the Orville crew breath without environment suits on Kraylon? It appears that the planet is entire covered in machinery, which makes sense for a planet of AIs. No plant life anywhere.  Where's the oxygen coming from? Why would there be any, the AIs don't need it so why would they care?

Oceans out-of-view?  And an easy atmosphere keeps maintenance requirements down.  Iirc, Venus implodes and melts our landers very quickly.
If global warming is real then how come I just felt this chill down my spine?

Offline Eternally Learning

  • Master Mr. a.k.a. Methodical Loaf
  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 8994
  • Break a leg, badger!
    • Get Past The 140 Character Limit!
Re: The Orville
« Reply #239 on: February 22, 2019, 04:37:38 PM »
"Identity" Pt. 1

Well. We totally called that plot twist, didn't we guys? Can't believe there are actually people who were surprised. Must not read or watch a lot of Science Fiction!

Some non-spoilers (or at least minor spoilers) thoughts:

*Wait! The Orville can land?!? Well, it is  smller than the Enterprise and a little more aerodynamic...but why? That's what shuttlecraft are for!  And it doesn't really land, but docks with one of those towering techno-spires.

*How is there a breathable atmosphere for the Orville crew breath without environment suits on Kraylon? It appears that the planet is entire covered in machinery, which makes sense for a planet of AIs. No plant life anywhere.  Where's the oxygen coming from? Why would there be any, the AIs don't need it so why would they care?

I agree on pretty much all fronts.  I'm sure they landed the ship specifically so later events could happen.  Kinda weird either they've never done it before or that they chose to do it now.

*I have more thoughts, but they fall into major spoiler territory so I'll wait a  bit. I just hope they don't hit the total re-set button with a major character next week. There should be long term and dire consequences for him as a result of all this.

(click to show/hide)

 

personate-rain