Author Topic: Some guidance requested  (Read 332 times)

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Offline NEKSkeptic

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Some guidance requested
« on: July 06, 2017, 11:04:34 AM »
I received a warning for engaging in bickering. 

Bickering is defined as follows:
Bickering is when one or more posters in a thread stop responding substantively, and instead primarily make abusive or insulting comments. This often takes the form of an escalating, two-sided use of accusations, insults, derision, namecalling, sarcasm, mockery, and other forms of abusive language.


When I asked the administrator what comments I made that were "abusive or insulting," I was merely referred to my participation in this thread:
https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,48925.0.html

The administrator said, "The linked messages were your side of an exchange which was derisive, sarcastic and mocking, and clearly non-substantive.  I hope this has clarified which comments were inappropriate."

I reviewed the thread to see which language I used that fell under the forum's definition of "bickering" but could not find any.  I sent a subsequent request to the administrator for the exact language I used that they believed was "abusive or insulting" and therefore arose to bickering.  The administrator responded, "I do not intend to engage you in semantic debate or rules lawyering about what is or is not sarcastic, derisive, or mocking."

This leaves me in a pickle.  As I stated to the administrator, my primary motivation is to learn what I did incorrectly and to avoid engaging in any such behavior again.  But for the life of me I cannot see what I posted in the thread that the administrator cited that falls under the forum's definition of bickering.

If anyone sees such language in this thread, I would love to know.  To repeat, my motivation for posting this is to be able to learn from my mistake(s) and to avoid any issues moving forward.  I appreciate that the administrators are volunteers, and it is not my intent to question their judgment calls.  It is my intent to avoid having them be required to make those in the first place.  But as it stands, I feel like I am rudderless. 

For the record, I acknowledge that the discussion had devolved.  That is something that I should have avoided.  But that alone does not constitute bickering according to the definition.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 11:08:35 AM by NEKSkeptic »

Online The Latinist

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Re: Some guidance requested
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2017, 11:13:27 AM »
I am not a moderator, but I never thought of bickering as being exclusively abusive language.  Both of you had stopped having substantive discussion of the topic and were instead having a pissing contest.  You both perpetuated it, and were therefore both responsible.  In the future, when things devolve just stop responding.
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Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: Some guidance requested
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2017, 11:15:56 AM »
Another thing to keep in mind is that you don't know what action took place regarding other members.  I don't have any special insight here, but I'd doubt that you were alone in receiving such a warning.
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Offline Morvis13

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Re: Some guidance requested
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 11:21:09 AM »
I'm also not a moderator but as a fair unbiased part of the argument you warn both parties evolved.
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Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: Some guidance requested
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2017, 11:23:41 AM »
I'm also not a moderator but as a fair unbiased part of the argument you warn both parties evolved.

I'm sorry, but these sorts of bickering fights are created by intelligent beings aware of their own actions.  They don't just "evolve."  :P
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Offline NEKSkeptic

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Re: Some guidance requested
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2017, 11:26:26 AM »
I am not a moderator, but I never thought of bickering as being exclusively abusive language. 

I don't doubt that.  But I was hoping someone could take a look at this while applying the forum's definition of bickering.  The rule is very clear in that it requires that I "primarily make abusive or insulting comments."  That is where I am struggling.

I have no problem with an administrator admonishing me to stay on point.  I've already owned that.  But if I am going to receive a actual warning for violating the forum rules, I would like to know what I did that is in violation. 
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 11:42:08 AM by NEKSkeptic »

Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: Some guidance requested
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 11:34:33 AM »
I am not a moderator, but I never thought of bickering as being exclusively abusive language. 

I don't doubt that.  But I was hoping someone could take a look at this while applying the forum rule's definition of bickering.  The rule is very clear in that it requires that I "primarily make abusive or insulting comments."  That is where I am struggling.

I have no problem with an administrator admonishing me to stay on point.  But if I am going to receive a actual warning for violating the forum rules, I would like to know what I did that is in violation.

Did you report his post?  When somebody is clearly calling you a troll repeatedly, saying "I'm not trolling, stop insulting me.  You're breaking the rules," is fine.  But if they are continuing to do it, when you've already called them out for it directly, then what is the purpose of continuing to call them out for it again?  At that point you should just report their post.  As it stands, while you're not the worst in that exchange, you do come off as threatening to tattle.  There's no reason to threaten that.  Give them notice (like you did) and if they don't take head report the post.  The moderators aren't instantaneous, but had you done that and then ceased engaging scolding the other user I can assure you that only they would have received a warning.
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Offline NEKSkeptic

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Re: Some guidance requested
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2017, 11:37:07 AM »

Did you report his post?  When somebody is clearly calling you a troll repeatedly, saying "I'm not trolling, stop insulting me.  You're breaking the rules," is fine.  But if they are continuing to do it, when you've already called them out for it directly, then what is the purpose of continuing to call them out for it again?  At that point you should just report their post.  As it stands, while you're not the worst in that exchange, you do come off as threatening to tattle.  There's no reason to threaten that.  Give them notice (like you did) and if they don't take head report the post.  The moderators aren't instantaneous, but had you done that and then ceased engaging scolding the other user I can assure you that only they would have received a warning.

If memory serves me correctly, and I may be mistaken, I had reported it at or near the end of the exchange.  The response for my reporting it appeared to be the warning for breaking the forum rules.

And while this is good advice as to overall etiquette, I still don't see how anything I said meets the forum's definition of bickering.  But your point is well taken.

Offline Andrew Clunn

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Re: Some guidance requested
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2017, 11:46:02 AM »

Did you report his post?  When somebody is clearly calling you a troll repeatedly, saying "I'm not trolling, stop insulting me.  You're breaking the rules," is fine.  But if they are continuing to do it, when you've already called them out for it directly, then what is the purpose of continuing to call them out for it again?  At that point you should just report their post.  As it stands, while you're not the worst in that exchange, you do come off as threatening to tattle.  There's no reason to threaten that.  Give them notice (like you did) and if they don't take head report the post.  The moderators aren't instantaneous, but had you done that and then ceased engaging scolding the other user I can assure you that only they would have received a warning.

If memory serves me correctly, and I may be mistaken, I had reported it at or near the end of the exchange.  The response for my reporting it appeared to be the warning for breaking the forum rules.

And while this is good advice as to overall etiquette, I still don't see how anything I said meets the forum's definition of bickering.  But your point is well taken.

From a purely pragmatic point of view, if I make a potentially abusive post, you make one post telling me to stop, and I respond by telling you to go to hell.  If you report it then the mod only has to read 3 posts.  If we go back and forth for a page, the mod (who is just a person) is likely to be like, "Oh gosh, just stop you two!"
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Re: Some guidance requested
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2017, 11:49:36 AM »
If only there was some way to directly ask the mod or mods, rather than starting a "HELP HELP I'M BEING OPPRESSED" post. Alas, there is no way to directly message one or more mods. No way at all. Absolutely no way to get a clear and direct line to the people directly involved.
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Offline NEKSkeptic

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Re: Some guidance requested
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2017, 11:53:29 AM »
If only there was some way to directly ask the mod or mods, rather than starting a "HELP HELP I'M BEING OPPRESSED" post. Alas, there is no way to directly message one or more mods. No way at all. Absolutely no way to get a clear and direct line to the people directly involved.

I directly asked the mod and got no response.  Thus, the question was posted here.  It's just a forum.  I'm not worried about being oppressed.  I just want to ensure that my behavior conforms to the rules.  Right now I can honestly say that I am confused as to the application of the rules.  That is all.

Offline wastrel

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Re: Some guidance requested
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2017, 12:17:58 PM »
If only there was some way to directly ask the mod or mods, rather than starting a "HELP HELP I'M BEING OPPRESSED" post. Alas, there is no way to directly message one or more mods. No way at all. Absolutely no way to get a clear and direct line to the people directly involved.

I directly asked the mod and got no response.  Thus, the question was posted here.  It's just a forum.  I'm not worried about being oppressed.  I just want to ensure that my behavior conforms to the rules.  Right now I can honestly say that I am confused as to the application of the rules.  That is all.

How much time elapsed between posing your question and posting this thread?

There is a team of mods,  they don't rule by individual fiat.  If you are asking for a detailed explanation with a clear line drawn in the sand, don't expect a two second reply.

Offline NEKSkeptic

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Re: Some guidance requested
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2017, 12:20:14 PM »
If only there was some way to directly ask the mod or mods, rather than starting a "HELP HELP I'M BEING OPPRESSED" post. Alas, there is no way to directly message one or more mods. No way at all. Absolutely no way to get a clear and direct line to the people directly involved.

I directly asked the mod and got no response.  Thus, the question was posted here.  It's just a forum.  I'm not worried about being oppressed.  I just want to ensure that my behavior conforms to the rules.  Right now I can honestly say that I am confused as to the application of the rules.  That is all.

How much time elapsed between posing your question and posting this thread?

There is a team of mods,  they don't rule by individual fiat.  If you are asking for a detailed explanation with a clear line drawn in the sand, don't expect a two second reply.

A half a day or more. 

Offline wastrel

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Re: Some guidance requested
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2017, 12:22:00 PM »
Then you expect too much from a mod team spread across the world.

Offline NEKSkeptic

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Re: Some guidance requested
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2017, 12:28:19 PM »
Then you expect too much from a mod team spread across the world.

I'll certainly wait, but I'd still love for anyone here to provide an example of anything I said in that thread that constitutes a violation of the bickering rule.  I got the distinct impression that the mod who took action was refusing to provide an example other than the vague statement that I posted in a thread. 

 

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