Author Topic: Episode #634  (Read 1182 times)

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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2017, 07:46:08 PM »
Minotaur is a compound of the king Minos and the Latin term for bull, taurus. Magnetar is like Steve said; magnetic star, pulsating star, quasi-stellar radio source.
They only rhyme in obscure American dialects. The rest of us pronounce "minotaur" and "centaur" correctly.

So, how do you Aussies pronounce minotaur and centaur? (And as the nation that dominates world popular media via Hollywood, I hardly think that American dialects can be called obscure.) I'm having a hard time thinking of any way of pronouncing those two words in a way that they don't rhyme with each other. But then, I do speak American English. (And Mexican Spanish, FWIW. Though I can put a bit of Castilian into my Spanish accent if I work at it. Not enough to fool a Spaniard, but enough to give a hint of what I'm trying for. In Cuba I was once mistaken for a Spaniard.)
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Online arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2017, 07:35:29 PM »
I'll tell you this. Pronouncing "-taur" to rhyme with "star" is just plain wrong. It's not "minotar", it's "minotaur". It rhymes with "four" and "pour". I mean look at the letters! You don't say "one, two, three, far" or "Par me a drink!"

Well, maybe you do, but you'd be wrong. And nothing you can do or say will convince me otherwise.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2017, 09:50:29 PM »
I'll tell you this. Pronouncing "-taur" to rhyme with "star" is just plain wrong. It's not "minotar", it's "minotaur". It rhymes with "four" and "pour". I mean look at the letters! You don't say "one, two, three, far" or "Par me a drink!"

Well, maybe you do, but you'd be wrong. And nothing you can do or say will convince me otherwise.

English is seldom pronounced the way it's spelled.

Consider the word Ghoti. Pronounce the "gh" as in "enough." Pronounce the "o" as in "women." Pronounce the "ti" as in "attention." And you end up pronouncing "ghoti" as "fish." English is rife with such silliness. It stems from our spelling having been more or less fixed at a time when the language was pronounced very differently than it is today.  One could argue that the "correct" pronunciation of English is as it was in Shakespeare's day. Or one could go further back and insist that we pronounce as Chaucer did.

I don't know why you insist on pronouncing "taur" to rhyme with "four." One has an a and the other has an o. I could argue that minotaur should be pronounced "minnow tower."
Daniel
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-- Otto von Bismarck

Online arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2017, 02:45:52 AM »
I'll tell you this. Pronouncing "-taur" to rhyme with "star" is just plain wrong. It's not "minotar", it's "minotaur". It rhymes with "four" and "pour". I mean look at the letters! You don't say "one, two, three, far" or "Par me a drink!"

Well, maybe you do, but you'd be wrong. And nothing you can do or say will convince me otherwise.

English is seldom pronounced the way it's spelled.

Consider the word Ghoti. Pronounce the "gh" as in "enough." Pronounce the "o" as in "women." Pronounce the "ti" as in "attention." And you end up pronouncing "ghoti" as "fish." English is rife with such silliness. It stems from our spelling having been more or less fixed at a time when the language was pronounced very differently than it is today.  One could argue that the "correct" pronunciation of English is as it was in Shakespeare's day. Or one could go further back and insist that we pronounce as Chaucer did.

I don't know why you insist on pronouncing "taur" to rhyme with "four." One has an a and the other has an o. I could argue that minotaur should be pronounced "minnow tower."
The dipthong au is pronounced the same way as it is in the word "aura". Even Merriam Webster agrees.

Consider: It is derived from the Greek word taurus, meaning a bull. Like the astrological sign. No-one pronounces that "tahrus". Why then do some say "minotahr"? It makes no sense.

Online arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2017, 02:48:53 AM »
Also, another thing that I wanted to mention but forgot. I think this was the episode where Evan (and Cara) repeated the fallacy that most people in the middle ages only lived to thirty or forty.

The low average lifespan was a result of high birth and early childhood mortality. If you survived to age twenty, then you were pretty much just as likely to live to sixty or seventy as you would be likely to live to eighty or ninety today. The number of people who didn't survive to age twenty was much higher, which brings the average lifespan way down.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2017, 08:52:35 AM »
... No-one pronounces that "tahrus". ...

Oh, I'm sure that some people, somewhere, do.  ;D
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Online Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2017, 11:37:31 AM »
I wonder how Arth pronounces Caesar? 
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Online arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2017, 06:37:04 PM »
It depends on whether I care about being historically accurate or not. If I'm casually talking in regular conversation, then like just about everyone else I say "SEE-zer". If, however, I am speaking in a historical context, or playing Fallout: New Vegas, then I will say "KYE-sar". I will also say "YOO-lee-us" and "CA-way CA-nem". Because that's how I was taught to pronounce Classical Latin.

"Minotaur" is not pronounced "minotahr" in Classical Greek as far as I know - only in some American dialects.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2017, 08:24:18 PM »
When words make their way from one language into another, they typically change in pronunciation to accommodate the vocal range of the speakers of the new language. Lots of words have made their way from French into English, but nobody expects us to pronounce them as they do in France. Likewise for words from other languages. Languages drift constantly. That's why we don't speak Anglo-Saxon, and why the French and the Spanish don't speak Latin. American English has drifted away from British English. That does not make one "right" and the other "wrong."
Daniel
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Offline Jaloopa

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2017, 04:02:56 PM »
Also, another thing that I wanted to mention but forgot. I think this was the episode where Evan (and Cara) repeated the fallacy that most people in the middle ages only lived to thirty or forty.

The low average lifespan was a result of high birth and early childhood mortality. If you survived to age twenty, then you were pretty much just as likely to live to sixty or seventy as you would be likely to live to eighty or ninety today. The number of people who didn't survive to age twenty was much higher, which brings the average lifespan way down.

I noticed that. It's a bit of a pet hate of mine, glad I'm not the only one to have picked up on it

Online arthwollipot

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2017, 06:33:28 PM »
When words make their way from one language into another, they typically change in pronunciation to accommodate the vocal range of the speakers of the new language. Lots of words have made their way from French into English, but nobody expects us to pronounce them as they do in France. Likewise for words from other languages. Languages drift constantly. That's why we don't speak Anglo-Saxon, and why the French and the Spanish don't speak Latin. American English has drifted away from British English. That does not make one "right" and the other "wrong."
There's pronunciation drifts that make sense, and there's pronunciation drifts that just make no damn sense and seemingly come from out of nowhere, or because of ignorance or laziness. That's why I hate the word "airplane" - because it sounds how a three-year old might pronounce "aeroplane". I don't even know whether "minotahr" and "centahr" are ignorant or lazy because I have no idea why some American dialects pronounce them that way.

(ETA: And by the way, since nuance is hard to pick up in text, my insistence that "it's just plain wrong dammit!" is intended for humourous effect.)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 06:35:59 PM by arthwollipot »

Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2017, 07:45:41 PM »
When words make their way from one language into another, they typically change in pronunciation to accommodate the vocal range of the speakers of the new language. Lots of words have made their way from French into English, but nobody expects us to pronounce them as they do in France. Likewise for words from other languages. Languages drift constantly. That's why we don't speak Anglo-Saxon, and why the French and the Spanish don't speak Latin. American English has drifted away from British English. That does not make one "right" and the other "wrong."
There's pronunciation drifts that make sense, and there's pronunciation drifts that just make no damn sense and seemingly come from out of nowhere, or because of ignorance or laziness. That's why I hate the word "airplane" - because it sounds how a three-year old might pronounce "aeroplane". I don't even know whether "minotahr" and "centahr" are ignorant or lazy because I have no idea why some American dialects pronounce them that way.

(ETA: And by the way, since nuance is hard to pick up in text, my insistence that "it's just plain wrong dammit!" is intended for humourous effect.)
Very reminiscent of the "ignorant and lazy" railings against ebonics. (Which, by the way, makes perfect linguistic sense.)
Go to New England and you can discuss the Minatah over a cup of chowdah. That might just put you over the top though.  :laugh:
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2017, 08:37:15 PM »
When words make their way from one language into another, they typically change in pronunciation to accommodate the vocal range of the speakers of the new language. Lots of words have made their way from French into English, but nobody expects us to pronounce them as they do in France. Likewise for words from other languages. Languages drift constantly. That's why we don't speak Anglo-Saxon, and why the French and the Spanish don't speak Latin. American English has drifted away from British English. That does not make one "right" and the other "wrong."
There's pronunciation drifts that make sense, and there's pronunciation drifts that just make no damn sense and seemingly come from out of nowhere, or because of ignorance or laziness. That's why I hate the word "airplane" - because it sounds how a three-year old might pronounce "aeroplane". I don't even know whether "minotahr" and "centahr" are ignorant or lazy because I have no idea why some American dialects pronounce them that way.

(ETA: And by the way, since nuance is hard to pick up in text, my insistence that "it's just plain wrong dammit!" is intended for humourous effect.)

The natural changes in languages make no sense. They just happen. Some of them make me angry, too. But we just have to deal with it.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline Friendly Angel

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2017, 09:10:22 PM »
Go to New England and you can discuss the Minatah over a cup of chowdah. That might just put you over the top though.  :laugh:

Ha!  Thad prolly make an oz pitch a wobblah.
Amend and resubmit.

Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: Episode #634
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2017, 01:07:26 AM »
Go to New England and you can discuss the Minatah over a cup of chowdah. That might just put you over the top though.  :laugh:

Ha!  Thad prolly make an oz pitch a wobblah.
It's a real wicked pissah!  :laugh:
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 01:15:26 AM by Jeremy's Sea »
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