Author Topic: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread  (Read 79934 times)

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Offline mindme

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #1230 on: October 29, 2019, 11:45:00 AM »
The first 7 seasons of Game of Thrones were pretty good. Indeed it is a bit hard to understand how the last season, or at least the last episode, of GoT could have been done by the same people. The best explanation I've heard is the final season did have the markers of creators who were trying to wrap up stuff quickly in the middle of them trying to set up their next great opus.

I think it's very clear that D&D were merely riding the coat tails over everyone else involved in the show.  As far as I understand it, season 8 was the first where it was just them writing it and it shows.  Also, I'd argue that seasons 6 and 7 were markedly worse than what came before. Even 5 was not on par with 1-4.

Indeed the later seasons were not as good as the initial seasons but they still held me pretty well. Even 8 had one or two good eps. The absolutely flubbed the finale, however. I know very little of how the initial seasons were written and produced so it's not clear to me D&D were riding coat tails.

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Offline Harry Black

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #1231 on: October 29, 2019, 11:50:52 AM »
I think the show had serious characterisation, pacing and writing problems before the last season but they were easily waved off with the hope that it would all tie together.
The last 3 seasons to me were very meh so the job they did is not as good as it seemed even at the time when one considers it as a whole.

Were there people who could have done a better job? I would put hypothetical money on it.

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #1232 on: October 29, 2019, 12:58:34 PM »
If you were watching for 'a saga of realpolitik,' the writing started coming undone as soon as they ran out of book.
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Offline Eternally Learning

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #1233 on: October 29, 2019, 01:21:57 PM »
I think the show had serious characterisation, pacing and writing problems before the last season but they were easily waved off with the hope that it would all tie together.

100% the way I feel.  I was willing to put up with a lot of nonsense for a wrap-up that was satisfying.  For example, I was fine with ignoring how little they did to sell Arya's transformation into a skilled bad-ass to enjoy her being a skilled bad-ass, but with the exception of the Frey's, she does nothing with those skills at all.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #1234 on: October 29, 2019, 01:59:50 PM »
I think the show had serious characterisation, pacing and writing problems before the last season but they were easily waved off with the hope that it would all tie together.

100% the way I feel.  I was willing to put up with a lot of nonsense for a wrap-up that was satisfying.  For example, I was fine with ignoring how little they did to sell Arya's transformation into a skilled bad-ass to enjoy her being a skilled bad-ass, but with the exception of the Frey's, she does nothing with those skills at all.

Well, there's the night king, and some of the guys on her list.
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Offline mindme

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #1235 on: October 29, 2019, 02:34:27 PM »
I don't agree but even if I grant you seasons 5-8 sucked balls, who was running the show seasons 1-4?
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Offline Captain Video

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #1236 on: October 29, 2019, 05:55:47 PM »

Here's a few tidbits:
- D&D had no idea about the fundamentals of making a TV show. They didn't even have an idea about how to work with basic staff like costume designers
- They really messed up the first pilot. Only after HBO asked them to add more minutes did they even realise they had no scene between Cersei and Robert
- They had no writers' room because reasons. They didn't even sit in the same room for writing the scripts, they did halves separately
- They hated the fantasy elements and wanted to cut back on them as much as possible
- They didn't even look at feedback after one of them tried and it gave him a sad


In their defense

A lot of this goes on with experienced show runners too. Things are written last minute, new script pages daily.  People in different places writing pages, Actors or directors changing dialog that then gets retroactively rewritten into the script the next day.

Shitty pilots that get picked up and really good ones that get turned down for many reasons. That's nothing new.

New show runners/directors/producers learning how to work with other departments is also common occurrence. Even experienced show runners mite find themselves having to relearn how other departments work, I imagine GOT wardrobe department was quite a bit more complicated than Breaking Bad. Thats not an email chain I would have liked to have been attached too LOL

A TV show is organized chaos. Oh and email chains, lots of email chains.

Offline Harry Black

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #1237 on: October 29, 2019, 06:32:46 PM »
I don't agree but even if I grant you seasons 5-8 sucked balls, who was running the show seasons 1-4?
Absolutely. The same guys. They are pretty decent at direct page to screen adaption. No question. I still think the show was overrated for those seasons but Im certainly in a minority.
And to Captain Videos point- TV is hard.

But the argument is that these guys are unlikely to have been picked for their talent when considering their connections and there were probably others who could have done a better job.
Or at least others who would have worked as an actual writing team and been more open to feedback and input.
The sheer carelessness with which they treated such a massive opportunity is infuriating considering the outcome and the missed potential.

Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #1238 on: October 29, 2019, 07:02:05 PM »
Some of their answers on the Q&A sounded a bit douchey, or at least out of touch.

They toned down the fantasy parts because they "didn’t just want to appeal to that type of fan.”  ???
Because all fantasy fans are single, white, overweight, male lay-abouts who live in their parents basement  ::)

They wanted to expand the fan base to people beyond the fantasy fan base to “mothers, NFL players”...

There is no such thing as a typical fantasy fan. I'm a moderator on a Fantasy & Sci-Fi Book Club forum and the members come from many different: age groups, countries, demographics, sexual identities etc
Many are mothers. I'm sure many sports players, even extreme jocks in the NFL, read and watch fantasy.

Offline mindme

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #1239 on: October 30, 2019, 08:56:15 AM »
Okay I think it's indeed reasonable they were pretty good when given the job of translating the book to the screen. Book readers had issues but my circle of friends who were fans (including my wife, sister in law, and elderly catholic aunt) just loved the show, as I did. And, sure, when they ran out of book and might have only been given broad strokes directions from GRRM, they ended up not having the chops to create (vs translate) a compelling fantasy narrative.

There is, I think, a good explanation why D&D turned out 3, 4, or 5 excellent seasons and a back half that got progressively worse as the story arc relied more on story crafting than story telling.
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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #1240 on: October 30, 2019, 11:34:22 AM »
Some of their answers on the Q&A sounded a bit douchey, or at least out of touch.

They toned down the fantasy parts because they "didn’t just want to appeal to that type of fan.”  ???
Because all fantasy fans are single, white, overweight, male lay-abouts who live in their parents basement  ::)

They wanted to expand the fan base to people beyond the fantasy fan base to “mothers, NFL players”...

There is no such thing as a typical fantasy fan. I'm a moderator on a Fantasy & Sci-Fi Book Club forum and the members come from many different: age groups, countries, demographics, sexual identities etc
Many are mothers. I'm sure many sports players, even extreme jocks in the NFL, read and watch fantasy.

Or they'll watch sports.

There are already far too many mediocre shows that try to cater to everyone, and also some decent shows about nothing in particular. With billions of potential viewers, there should be plenty of room, and market share, available for those who try to be the best at something in a different category. It's ridiculous that they had great success working on something that isn't mainstream, and then point to the setting as the problem.

Offline GodSlayer

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Re: Non-Readers (No Book Spoilers) Game of Thrones TV Show Thread
« Reply #1241 on: November 03, 2019, 06:10:45 AM »
There was an absolutely fascinating Q&A session with D&D which was a great illustration of how horrible they are at their job. Based on it, it is a miracle the show ever happened

did they ever acknowledge the woman who convinced the other execs to give it a second hearing? (heard that story from her on a podcast, Dana Gould's podcast probably)
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