Author Topic: Omnibus Sexual Harrassment in Media Discussion thread  (Read 15610 times)

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Offline The Latinist

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Omnibus Sexual Harrassment in Media Discussion thread
« on: October 30, 2017, 12:17:14 PM »
Once you start to hear the rumors in the media about Kevin Spacey and Louis CK that have been circulating at parties in LA for years, how easy or difficult will those be to believe off the cuff? There won't be one or two accusers either...

I'm not sure if this belongs in a new thread or not, but I'm kinda disgusted with Spacey's response to the charges, which is to come out as "a gay man" and pretend that the accusations don't exist.  It's really cynical key jingling (although probably very good P.R. advice).
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 10:03:10 PM by The Latinist »
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2017, 01:34:37 PM »
Yeah, I'm really disgusted with Spacey's retreat to "I'm gay" to avoid an accusation of assaulting a 14 year old.

I can honestly buy that Spacey might not remember a drunken incident form 30 years ago, but to wrap his "apology" in coming out to the world is extremely disingenuous and an obvious plot to pivot the conversation.

Really sad, I had so much respect and admiration for Spacey as an actor.

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2017, 01:42:12 PM »
I guess it's not a sexual assault allegation if it's the beginning of a personal growth arc
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Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2017, 01:42:37 PM »
Yeah, I'm really disgusted with Spacey's retreat to "I'm gay" to avoid an accusation of assaulting a 14 year old.

I can honestly buy that Spacey might not remember a drunken incident form 30 years ago, but to wrap his "apology" in coming out to the world is extremely disingenuous and an obvious plot to pivot the conversation.

Really sad, I had so much respect and admiration for Spacey as an actor.
A drunken incident with another man from 30 years ago may not be particularly memorable, but trying to fuck a 14 year old should be, unless it's a pattern of behavior that makes it unremarkable... which I would put my money on.
Then again I don't get blackout drunk so I'm not sure how many civilized rules go out the window, but to my knowledge my friends who have gotten blackout drunk didn't become pederasts once drunk either and Spacey had enough foresight to lure the kid to his apartment.
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Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2017, 01:43:32 PM »
I guess it's not a sexual assault allegation if it's the beginning of a personal growth arc
Yup. Act 1...
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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2017, 01:48:21 PM »
Yeah, I'm really disgusted with Spacey's retreat to "I'm gay" to avoid an accusation of assaulting a 14 year old.

I can honestly buy that Spacey might not remember a drunken incident form 30 years ago, but to wrap his "apology" in coming out to the world is extremely disingenuous and an obvious plot to pivot the conversation.

Really sad, I had so much respect and admiration for Spacey as an actor.
A drunken incident with another man from 30 years ago may not be particularly memorable, but trying to fuck a 14 year old should be, unless it's a pattern of behavior that makes it unremarkable... which I would put my money on.
Then again I don't get blackout drunk so I'm not sure how many civilized rules go out the window, but to my knowledge my friends who have gotten blackout drunk didn't become pederasts once drunk either and Spacey had enough foresight to lure the kid to his apartment.

For sure being blackout drunk doesn't excuse his behavior, I just meant I can see not remembering it specifically.  Doesn't make him any less of a disgusting asshole, just that he might not remember this one incident where he was a disgusting asshole.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2017, 01:54:32 PM »
(click to show/hide)
Along with massive power and influence, this is the way abusers and rapists like Weinstein cover up. Once you start to hear the rumors in the media about Kevin Spacey and Louis CK that have been circulating at parties in LA for years, how easy or difficult will those be to believe off the cuff? There won't be one or two accusers either...
For what ever its worth, a month week ago, I generally responded to this sort of accusation against rich and/or powerful men with a bit of skepticism.  There is incentive to lie about this sort of thing in those cases.  Now, I pretty much assume its true. 

On the Spacey allegation, he at least admits that jumping on top of a 14 year old is the sort of thing he might of done.  My reaction to that accusation wouldn't be, "I don't remember it, I was drunk!"  "It would be, that's crazy, I've never done anything like that!" 

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2017, 01:59:15 PM »
My reaction to that accusation wouldn't be, "I don't remember it, I was drunk!"  "It would be, that's crazy, I've never done anything like that!"

^ this.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline godbomb

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2017, 11:46:02 PM »
Kevin Spacey is a bad person.  Lets move on to the next guy.

Offline janine.b

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2017, 04:49:41 AM »
I'm incredibly pleased that Anthony Rapp has been believed. The only criticism I've seen is a tiny amount of people asking why he's making accusations publicly rather than privately.

Why is this so different to all of the women that have accused Harvey Weinstein? Is it because he's male? Is it because there's no perception of a male casting couch?  Is it because he was just 14?


Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2017, 08:56:41 AM »
I'm incredibly pleased that Anthony Rapp has been believed. The only criticism I've seen is a tiny amount of people asking why he's making accusations publicly rather than privately.

Why is this so different to all of the women that have accused Harvey Weinstein? Is it because he's male? Is it because there's no perception of a male casting couch?  Is it because he was just 14?
1.  Critical mass, there are so many of these accusations against so many people now that have been corroborated that people just assume its likely true.  Two months ago, he probably wouldn't have been so easily believed.
2.  Spacey's response. "I'm sorry if it happened, I don't remember because I was drunk"  At least confirms it the sort of thing he might have done. 
3.  Being a man or being 14 years old at the time might play into it but I think number 2 is probably the big reason so few people doubt him.

Side note, who's asking why he isn't making these accusations privately?  That's an odd response.

Offline janine.b

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2017, 09:04:04 AM »
Yeah, I'm still seeing comments everywhere about the women in the Weinstein case are just "out for the money", "why didn't they say anything sooner", "why did they go in the hotel room alone with him" all over the place, made in the last 24 hours.

I agree, it's an odd response. I'll never be able to find the comments now, but I think it was along the lines of "why not just tell the police instead of making it public". Is this something that would still be able to be prosecuted in the US as it's so long ago?

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2017, 09:09:49 AM »
Yeah, I'm still seeing comments everywhere about the women in the Weinstein case are just "out for the money", "why didn't they say anything sooner", "why did they go in the hotel room alone with him" all over the place, made in the last 24 hours.

I agree, it's an odd response. I'll never be able to find the comments now, but I think it was along the lines of "why not just tell the police instead of making it public". Is this something that would still be able to be prosecuted in the US as it's so long ago?
I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure even if they could prosecute after 30ish years, they wouldn't because so much time has passed.

Offline janine.b

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2017, 09:49:10 AM »
I believe in the UK they would, that's why partly why I'm asking. There's been a whole load of old cases go through the courts in recent years due to the fall out of Jimmy Saville crimes with several getting jail time for crimes dating back into the 60's. Quite a lot were offences against teenagers at the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yewtree

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2017, 10:07:15 AM »
Well, I'm no lawyer but, I think if this had actually been a rape it might get prosecuted but it didn't get that far so, probably not.  I'd love if one of lawyers or law enforcement officers weighed in on it though.

 

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