Author Topic: Omnibus Sexual Harrassment in Media Discussion thread  (Read 15641 times)

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Online John Albert

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2017, 10:43:05 AM »
I think if this had actually been a rape it might get prosecuted but it didn't get that far so, probably not.

This seems to imply that you think that all (or most) "actual" rapes get prosecuted, and lack of prosecution means it didn't happen. 

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2017, 11:09:18 AM »
Yeah, I'm really disgusted with Spacey's retreat to "I'm gay" to avoid an accusation of assaulting a 14 year old.

I can honestly buy that Spacey might not remember a drunken incident form 30 years ago, but to wrap his "apology" in coming out to the world is extremely disingenuous and an obvious plot to pivot the conversation.

Really sad, I had so much respect and admiration for Spacey as an actor.

I'm fucking *furious* that he's trying to hide his attempted rape of a boy with coming out. Not only does it give anti-queer bigots more ammunition for their "gay=pedophile" garbage, it's fucking disingenuous. Straight men are pedophiles, too, Spacey, get the fuck over yourself.
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Offline materialist_girl

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2017, 11:33:13 AM »
In my experience, people on the empathy-deficient/used-to-lying scale also have a hard time grasping when they trip up and people stop believing them. I think that's happening now. That his response seemed like a good idea to him, while the rest of us are like "You're a monster," is genuinely terrifying to me.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2017, 11:43:39 AM »
I think if this had actually been a rape it might get prosecuted but it didn't get that far so, probably not.

This seems to imply that you think that all (or most) "actual" rapes get prosecuted, and lack of prosecution means it didn't happen. 
That is not at all what I said, I have a hard time understanding how you came to that conclusion.

Offline janine.b

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2017, 11:53:14 AM »
I think if this had actually been a rape it might get prosecuted but it didn't get that far so, probably not.

This seems to imply that you think that all (or most) "actual" rapes get prosecuted, and lack of prosecution means it didn't happen. 
That is not at all what I said, I have a hard time understanding how you came to that conclusion.

I did think the same first time I read it. I did have a "wait, what?" moment. It feels slightly weirdly worded but I'm not sure why.


Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2017, 12:09:22 PM »
I did think the same first time I read it. I did have a "wait, what?" moment. It feels slightly weirdly worded but I'm not sure why.
In that case, I'm glad I didn't go with my initial snarky reply and will take responsibility for my miscommunication. 

I'll try again,  I am not a lawyer nor involved in law enforcement in any way, so I don't really know but:

I think rape is more likely to get prosecuted than sexual assault.  I doubt either is more likely to get prosecuted than not especially after 30ish years.  Either due to a statute of limitations or prosecutors thinking they can't get a conviction.

I doubt that's any clearer. 

Offline janine.b

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2017, 12:17:36 PM »
I did think the same first time I read it. I did have a "wait, what?" moment. It feels slightly weirdly worded but I'm not sure why.
In that case, I'm glad I didn't go with my initial snarky reply and will take responsibility for my miscommunication. 

I'll try again,  I am not a lawyer nor involved in law enforcement in any way, so I don't really know but:

I think rape is more likely to get prosecuted than sexual assault.  I doubt either is more likely to get prosecuted than not especially after 30ish years.  Either due to a statute of limitations or prosecutors thinking they can't get a conviction.

I doubt that's any clearer.

So you were going to get snarky with me for asking a question? I had forgotten that it was an attempted rape, so it's fair enough it's not quite the same as Operation Yew Tree. I keep hearing about the statute of limitations with Bill Cosby's case and was curious if it would be the same for a child case. I'm not sure why it might have deserved snark. Though as you changed your mind I guess you decided it wasn't... but the thought was there.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2017, 01:11:37 PM »
Keep digging a hole for my self I see.  No, I was going to get snarky with john for what I thought was a ridiculous interpretation of my statement that made me out as some kind of rape apologist or something. Then you posted, confirming he wasn't the only one that misunderstood, demonstrating that I was not clear. 

Offline pandamonium

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2017, 01:16:17 PM »
Rape and sexual assault aren't, to the best of my knowledge, distinguished from one another in a legal sense. There are different definitions for states and federal jurisdictions, but as far as I know there isn't a hard line for what constitutes a rape versus a sexual assault legally--nothing that resembles how we use the terms colloquially at least (rape being violent sexual penetration, sexual assault being everything else). Whether a violent act is prosecuted as a rape or a sexual assault probably depends on what prosecutors think they could make stick best, or some other arbitrary measure--well, as arbitrary as a lawyer could be, I mean.

Neither are prosecuted very often. Of the small number that ever see a court, it's some absurdly low number. My brain says 3%, but I'd have to look it up. It's fucking *low*, though, which makes claims of "she's just trying to ruin his life" kind of the most absurd.
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Offline wastrel

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2017, 01:19:24 PM »
Keep digging a hole for my self I see.  No, I was going to get snarky with john for what I thought was a ridiculous interpretation of my statement that made me out as some kind of rape apologist or something. Then you posted, confirming he wasn't the only one that misunderstood, demonstrating that I was not clear.

To be fair, my initial impulse for ANY response is to be snarky.  I have to constantly fight that urge.

Online John Albert

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2017, 01:19:32 PM »
Keep digging a hole for my self I see.  No, I was going to get snarky with john for what I thought was a ridiculous interpretation of my statement that made me out as some kind of rape apologist or something. Then you posted, confirming he wasn't the only one that misunderstood, demonstrating that I was not clear.

The reason I posted was to make sure that's not what you meant. Sorry if my verbiage didn't come across as charitable.

Offline janine.b

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2017, 01:21:12 PM »
Keep digging a hole for my self I see.  No, I was going to get snarky with john for what I thought was a ridiculous interpretation of my statement that made me out as some kind of rape apologist or something. Then you posted, confirming he wasn't the only one that misunderstood, demonstrating that I was not clear.

Fair enough.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2017, 01:30:18 PM »
For whatever its worth, this demonstrates why some many forum conversations quickly go off the rails.  I got my hackles up, then It appears to me that Janine got her hackles up.  If I had been more snarky as was my impulse, we be calling each other names by now over what was really a minor misunderstanding.   

Offline janine.b

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2017, 01:46:32 PM »
I actually didn't get my hackles up so much that time. I have earlier today. I was just surprised and confused at why I thought you were going to be snarky at me. I try to leave out the kind of stuff I usually accidentally insert into other conversations online to show I'm being friendly because I'm normally talking to women and it's just not the way people talk here. Like over using exclamation marks and emoticons and I'm not sure I know how to do it in a place like this. No, what I see here is an over use of snark! ;)

Online Nosmas

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Re: Kevin Spacey (FROM Joshie Berger is, well, you know)
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2017, 05:23:37 PM »
For whatever its worth, this demonstrates why some many forum conversations quickly go off the rails.  I got my hackles up, then It appears to me that Janine got her hackles up.  If I had been more snarky as was my impulse, we be calling each other names by now over what was really a minor misunderstanding.   

I actually perceive this as being an issue in this forum. While this place seems less outright rude (direct attacks) it does seem overly snarky and less charitable to differing views than other messages board I've used. Enough so that I prefer to lurk than invest what I know to be an enormous amount of time debating or pointing out strawmen.

Back to lurk mode *vanishes into shadow*.
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