Author Topic: Designing an Earth base  (Read 2978 times)

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Offline MTBox

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Re: Designing an Earth base
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2017, 07:13:33 PM »
"it's a series of solar collectors that focus light into narrow tunnels"
"Solatube" is already on the market. Good tech, for day time.

Definitely need Secondary access for emergencies, when primary is blocked. This is a huge concern in my current location. We (these neighborhoods) have one means of moving in/out by road; if it got blocked by fire, there is no getting over the river via a different route (except, we could swim for it, I guess). And now they are putting a school at the bottom, near the river, as well.

Offline junki

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Re: Designing an Earth base
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2017, 07:49:10 AM »
Radio mast; communication and monitoring equipment: Could be placed on the peak, if it can be made secure over time. It would be a means of checking in with other facilities, and picking up other communication.

I'm not sure if there are satellites to link with

US Navy has old all-analog geostationary satellites, which can be used with simple 300 MHz radios, no special equipment, arrangements or large antennas needed. You hear mostly portuguese now, and some encrypted transmissions too. Other nations have launched similar stuff. Uncontrollable from the ground. Unless they are physically shot down, I guess some of those will stay operational for decades.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet_Satellite_Communications_System

Offline 2397

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Re: Designing an Earth base
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2017, 04:17:11 PM »
Kessler syndrome is another factor. Which could happen by itself at this point. But especially if someone decides to blow up more satellites.

"it's a series of solar collectors that focus light into narrow tunnels"
"Solatube" is already on the market. Good tech, for day time.

Definitely need Secondary access for emergencies, when primary is blocked. This is a huge concern in my current location. We (these neighborhoods) have one means of moving in/out by road; if it got blocked by fire, there is no getting over the river via a different route (except, we could swim for it, I guess). And now they are putting a school at the bottom, near the river, as well.

I try to avoid dead ends for the most part. There could be a narrow path out from the other side of the living quarters, and it could be where the sewage outlet goes.

It might be cost-effective to build an elevator instead of the staircase, which needs more space. But they need to be able to manually access any surface and mechanism.

Offline 2397

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Re: Designing an Earth base
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2017, 09:47:02 AM »
What sort of excursion gear would be necessary, when the atmosphere provides about 15% oxygen, and contains 2,000 ppm CO2? The latitude makes it easier to work at night in summer. During heatwaves, the temperatures could still be up to 35°C. Excluding peak temperatures, limited to walking and not carrying heavy loads, I'm guessing that they could be outside for an hour without serious difficulties.

If they have to spend more time and effort to make repairs, gather resources, trade, they need something that can either supplement oxygen, scrub CO2, or both.

It's about the same amount of oxygen as there currently is at 3000 meters elevation, but it seems worse to have less oxygen by lower ratio, than having less oxygen because there's less air.

2,000 ppm CO2 is enough for a permanent headache. Although miners have to deal with much more than that, judging by this system which is advertised as keeping levels below 10,000 ppm. 5,000 is a typical exposure limit, averaged across 8 hours. Maybe I don't have to worry about the CO2 part. Or enough CO2 could be displaced by the extra oxygen.

So a small mask and oxygen tank? A ventilator that uses about 10% of the tank, 90% air. Or injecting oxygen into the nose while otherwise breathing regularly. Could have an electric ATV with a cabin, and bigger tanks.

Offline MTBox

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Re: Designing an Earth base
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2017, 04:27:47 PM »
Not a tank. That's about equivalent to 8,000' elevation now; although you can live there farily easily, it might be nice to provide a concentrator as part of a work toolbelt; you see people carrying these at the store and eating out. Instead of hauling a Tank, it is more like a large backback unit or large purse and they have a cannula ("nose hose") attached. 

Offline 2397

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Re: Designing an Earth base
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2017, 01:29:44 PM »
Wondering about how to create various substances.

Vegetable oil would likely be the substitute for mineral oil for machinery and moving parts. It could be a component to produce soap with, too. Hopefully trees are still growing.

It would've been useful to have access to seawater.

In a way, they'll be more protected from infectious diseases than most humans are today, though they won't have access to emergency services or routine checkups. Or most medicines. Possibly some reserves to be extremely conservative with.

I was wondering if ethanol should be excluded for behavioral reasons, but maybe they need it as a disinfectant. Maybe other infamous recreational drugs will be needed as painkillers.

Birth control and abortifacients could be necessary. "Natural" abortifacients are pretty brutal, and I don't know much about synthesizing hormones. Given that people manage to manufacture anabolic steroids on their own, it might be doable for them to produce estrogen and progesterone.

Depending on how they ended up there, and what the long term outlook is, maybe being sterilized is the preferred solution.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 01:40:04 PM by 2397 »

Offline junki

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Re: Designing an Earth base
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2017, 02:16:42 PM »
a component to produce soap
Some families still made soap from pig fat and ash when I was a young boy. Awful stench. The end result was just soap all right, though.

Offline MTBox

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Re: Designing an Earth base
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2017, 02:37:16 PM »
You could introduce a manipulated crop, such as a modified Sweet potato/yam, developed for food production and the byproduct diosgenin, which is a naturally occurring hormone, to create a birth control substance.

I don't see having lubricants and soap without having at least one degreaser, such as an alcohol or ketone. You can make these hard to abuse or even a nondrinkabe product entirely.

And you know that ultimately any resource possible is used to attempt to make hooch, right? That would be part of your story line. If you need to have a still to purify water, it is a still, still.

Offline 2397

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Re: Designing an Earth base
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2017, 07:16:46 PM »
Now I have to actually write this thing.

I'm almost worried I'm making it too low tech, given how much time has passed before the events of the story (in the area of 200 years, given the climate). It's natural that there will be stagnation, once the country or the region collapses, and no longer has immediate contact with the rest of the world. Even regression, deterioration, loss of technology that relied on a long supply chain (and constant replacement). But it wouldn't just fall back into 2030, depending on where it fell from.

Thanks for all the comments.

Offline MTBox

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Re: Designing an Earth base
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2018, 05:07:20 PM »
"I'm almost worried I'm making it too low tech,"

Please, do! I get tired of, "Look, in the future, we are this advanced and go into Space" and then we run into Space Warriors that wear skins and burn torches onboard their ships. Or, we see post-apocalypse lifestyles, as if woven fabrics lasted forever. You need Low Tech = basic skills and functions. If you don't have a machine shop, how can you have all of that equipment you use and repair, elsewhere? You cannot Three-D print something without the ability to manage the machines, and get raw stock, and recycle every bit and scrap of anything, into something else.

Offline 2397

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Re: Designing an Earth base
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2018, 08:25:14 AM »
How to make sure to cover all exercise needs in the gym? Keeping in mind injuries and other limiting factors.

I've set up the gym to have one section for free weights, one section for matte exercises/suspension training, and there's a treadmill, an elliptical trainer, an exercise bike, a rowing machine, a shoulder press, and a leg press. Which might be overkill. Or maybe the focus needs to be what's most durable.

From personal experience, I'd guess that the machines with pulley systems are the most fragile. But if they can be easily fixed, that's not a concern. The treadmill could be the most difficult to fix, especially since it seems to need an electric motor for optimal use. According to this possibly biased eBay page.

Offline MTBox

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Re: Designing an Earth base
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2018, 02:58:45 PM »
"How to make sure to cover all exercise needs in the gym?"

Real Life takes care of that. I go out and shovel snow for 2 hours, and my neighbor pays for a service, so that he can go to the gym.

If you need anything at all, I would suggest a "universal machine" = one footprint, one frame, you work your way around its Stations. This is helpful for rehab and range of motion. But nothing takes the place of Real Work. Do you think your people will have a lot of leisure time and not have to at least rotate through menial tasks for work?

Offline 2397

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Re: Designing an Earth base
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2018, 10:41:36 AM »
Maybe it's not that big of a deal. It depends on how much time they can spend outside. Running up and down the hallway might not be that good on their joints. Unless it's designed with that in mind, I suppose. And some people could have specific physical therapy needs.

In the subarctic winter there could be a lot of downtime, since food production scales with sunlight.

Offline MTBox

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Re: Designing an Earth base
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2018, 06:01:24 PM »
"In the subarctic winter there could be a lot of downtime, since food production scales with sunlight."

Go to Discovery Channel and see if you can find the episode of Homestead Rescue, where the host takes you on a tour of his Alaska neighbor's Food Cache, reviewing methods and his calculation for needs, cycling out the product, etc. It was very interesting.

 

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