Author Topic: Superman and God  (Read 4215 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Johan

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 127
Re: Superman and God
« Reply #255 on: December 07, 2017, 01:05:59 AM »
Today, I had the time and interest to read your incredibly long, incredibly hard to understand wall of text.

Yep.  And we both agree that what is really incredible is the fact that you did it.  So we have to agree that it was a miracle.  I am sure it was only given to you.  Nobody else would get the Power to do that "feat".

I do not promise that I will have the time or inclination to do it again.

Well as the miracle came from God we do not know what you will do in future.  And we do not know what others are going to do in future.  But more of this "stuff" I am sure is going to happen here.

I would very much appreciate it if you could communicate a lot more directly in the future.  For example, you could have saved a lot of time and energy on both our parts by concisely telling us your points. 

That I am doing already.

You said "I do not want to give too much."  That is wise.  What we need is for you to filter out all the stuff that doesn't make sense and just tell us what you are trying to say.  For example, you could say something like this:

That I am doing already.  So if you want me to give you just a "little piece" just ask for the specific piece.  You do not need to go and search for it.  But when the miracle happens blame God.

"Hello, my name is Johan.  God has spoken to me in a vision and told me that the churches in my community are corrupt, and he commanded me to live my life in services to others.  So, I gave away all my wealth to those in need, and I'm here to show you (and everyone I can possibly contact in real life or through the internet) based on my miraculous experience that the way I live my life now is what God wants for everyone.  Proof of my miracle is available upon request."

That is just what I said.  And I gave some more proof of some other miracles.  But we need to take it "bit by bit".  It is a huge puzzle.  It is my Life.  And you will not get the full picture If I give you alle the puzzles.  We need to fit those puzzles in.  So a puzzle can be a headache or it can be enjoyed.  I would rather we enjoy it.  If you want the headache here it is.

http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/

Offline Johan

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 127
Re: Superman and God
« Reply #256 on: December 07, 2017, 01:08:34 AM »
Today, I had the time and interest to read your incredibly long, incredibly hard to understand wall of text.  I do not promise that I will have the time or inclination to do it again.  I would very much appreciate it if you could communicate a lot more directly in the future.  For example, you could have saved a lot of time and energy on both our parts by concisely telling us your points.  You said "I do not want to give too much."  That is wise.  What we need is for you to filter out all the stuff that doesn't make sense and just tell us what you are trying to say.  For example, you could say something like this:

"Hello, my name is Johan.  God has spoken to me in a vision and told me that the churches in my community are corrupt, and he commanded me to live my life in services to others.  So, I gave away all my wealth to those in need, and I'm here to show you (and everyone I can possibly contact in real life or through the internet) based on my miraculous experience that the way I live my life now is what God wants for everyone.  Proof of my miracle is available upon request."

You already know the reason why he chose his style. Being enigmatic and vague in a mystical sense amps up the theatrical intrigue.

It's also similar to the strategy Trump employs: be as clear as mud and you can evade criticism and legitimate discourse.

Not really.  I just do not want you to have the headache.  But if you want it.  There it is.

http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/

And now you can proof to us that "your way" is better.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 01:28:51 AM by Johan »

Offline Johan

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 127
Re: Superman and God
« Reply #257 on: December 07, 2017, 01:25:07 AM »
Today, I had the time and interest to read your incredibly long, incredibly hard to understand wall of text.  I do not promise that I will have the time or inclination to do it again.  I would very much appreciate it if you could communicate a lot more directly in the future.  For example, you could have saved a lot of time and energy on both our parts by concisely telling us your points.  You said "I do not want to give too much."  That is wise.  What we need is for you to filter out all the stuff that doesn't make sense and just tell us what you are trying to say.  For example, you could say something like this:

"Hello, my name is Johan.  God has spoken to me in a vision and told me that the churches in my community are corrupt, and he commanded me to live my life in services to others.  So, I gave away all my wealth to those in need, and I'm here to show you (and everyone I can possibly contact in real life or through the internet) based on my miraculous experience that the way I live my life now is what God wants for everyone.  Proof of my miracle is available upon request."

You already know the reason why he chose his style. Being enigmatic and vague in a mystical sense amps up the theatrical intrigue.

It's also similar to the strategy Trump employs: be as clear as mud and you can evade criticism and legitimate discourse.

That is what I thought until I ready that e-mail chain.

You see!  You are also making mistakes.  He takes a piece and fit it in  . . .and you see . . .nope it is not fitting. . . .it should go over there.  This we just need to accept and work together to get this puzzle done.  We can enjoy it together and fight together etc.  Until the pieces fit and the picture is clear.

Now I think that Johan really believes that what he writes should make sense to all of us because it makes sense to him. 

Nope.  You got that impression from the chain.  To them it was clear.  But I do know that it is not clear to you because you are not living with me.  In Robertson our lives are together and we know what is "cooking".

It may even make sense to the people in his community, because it sounds like they are all swamped in religious mumbo-jumbo. 

And now you admit it.  We know the "mumbo-jumbo".

There's even an e-mail in there where Johan and Monika are basically saying...Jesus told me you are wrong...No, Jesus told me YOU are wrong.

That you will always notice  with the religious people.  Why do you think it is happening? 

And secondly . . . one of us is right.  So how do we judge that now?

Offline Billzbub

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2905
  • I know you know I know
Re: Superman and God
« Reply #258 on: December 07, 2017, 10:07:57 AM »
But I want to ask something:  What kept you going through all that "difficult reading"?

I was trying to see if it contained the point that you are trying to get at.  Your posts on this forum so far were beating around the bush, and I wanted to cut to the chase.

On another note, where you are from, do phrases like "beating around the bush" and "cut to the chase" make sense to you, or are they too culturally dependent?  I can't tell if our cultures have the same sayings.

Yep.  And we both agree that what is really incredible is the fact that you did it.  So we have to agree that it was a miracle.  I am sure it was only given to you.  Nobody else would get the Power to do that "feat".

At first, I thought you were just joking here, but then I realized you seriously think it is a miracle that I read all that.  As I understand it, a miracle is something that happens because of divine intervention that wouldn't have normally happened.  Do you believe that God mind-controlled me to read all that?  Either God intervened and made me do it (a miracle), or not.  If you really believe this was a miracle, then it is apparent that you attribute many things around you that are natural or random to divine intervention.  When your brain thinks that everything good is a miracle and everything bad is either a test or a corruption introduced by bad human behavior, then you have no way of understanding what is real.

Let me give you this thought experiment as an example of what I am saying.  Let's imagine a hypothetical world, like in a book or a movie, where god does not exist.  The main characters of the book go through life, and they see things happen around them that are both good and bad, both common and unlikely.  They attribute every unlikely, good thing they see to a fictional being named Ralph, and every unlikely bad thing to either random chance or to people going against the will of Ralph.  The audience can see that Ralph does not exist, but the characters all think Ralph exists because they have seen proof (unlikely events that are good).  You are a character in that movie, where you can't tell that there's no God because you attribute every good, unlikely event to him.

There's even an e-mail in there where Johan and Monika are basically saying...Jesus told me you are wrong...No, Jesus told me YOU are wrong.

That you will always notice  with the religious people.  Why do you think it is happening? 

And secondly . . . one of us is right.  So how do we judge that now?

When religious people attribute everything to a God that doesn't exist, none of them are right.

Here is a quote from your e-mail chain where Monica, who is quoting Jesus from a vision, is in lower case text and your response is in uppercase text:

Quote
Because Johan has never met Me, his Savior and Master and King,

UNTRUE . .  . AS I MET AND LIVE WITH HIM FOR MANY YEARS NOW . . . AND I KNOW THAT EVERYBODY IN ROBERTSON KNOWS  AT LEAST THAT . . . . .

ALTHOUGH THEY DO NOT ACCEPT MUCH THAT I AM DOING . . . BUT THIS  . . .EVERYBODY KNOWS IS  JUST . . . NOT THE TRUTH!

In this instance, Monica says she has spoken to Jesus and that Jesus said that you have NEVER met him.  You say that she is wrong because you have had a vision where you met Jesus.  To her, her vision is real and yours is fake, and to you, your vision is real and hers is fake.  The most likely explanation is that both of your visions are fake, especially since you both interpret as miracles everyday events such as someone on a forum seriously engaging you.
Quote from: Steven Novella
gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor

Offline Billzbub

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2905
  • I know you know I know
Re: Superman and God
« Reply #259 on: December 07, 2017, 10:13:13 AM »
http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/

I can't see that link from work, which is the only place I'm willing to spend time looking into this.  Also, I think I have a good enough understand of where you are coming from now.

I do have a question, though.  From the e-mail chain, it seems like nobody else believes you.  Is that the case, or do you have followers that believe you and are also trying to become Gods as you have?
Quote from: Steven Novella
gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor

Offline Johan

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 127
Re: Superman and God
« Reply #260 on: December 12, 2017, 05:42:07 AM »
But I want to ask something:  What kept you going through all that "difficult reading"?

I was trying to see if it contained the point that you are trying to get at.  Your posts on this forum so far were beating around the bush, and I wanted to cut to the chase.

Ok.  Did you succeed?

On another note, where you are from, do phrases like "beating around the bush" and "cut to the chase" make sense to you, or are they too culturally dependent?  I can't tell if our cultures have the same sayings.

Yep.  I think so.  You meant I am running in circles but you are going to stop me in my tracks?

Yep.  And we both agree that what is really incredible is the fact that you did it.  So we have to agree that it was a miracle.  I am sure it was only given to you.  Nobody else would get the Power to do that "feat".


At first, I thought you were just joking here, but then I realized you seriously think it is a miracle that I read all that.  As I understand it, a miracle is something that happens because of divine intervention that wouldn't have normally happened.  Do you believe that God mind-controlled me to read all that?  Either God intervened and made me do it (a miracle), or not.  If you really believe this was a miracle, then it is apparent that you attribute many things around you that are natural or random to divine intervention.  When your brain thinks that everything good is a miracle and everything bad is either a test or a corruption introduced by bad human behavior, then you have no way of understanding what is real.

Let me give you this thought experiment as an example of what I am saying.  Let's imagine a hypothetical world, like in a book or a movie, where god does not exist.  The main characters of the book go through life, and they see things happen around them that are both good and bad, both common and unlikely.  They attribute every unlikely, good thing they see to a fictional being named Ralph, and every unlikely bad thing to either random chance or to people going against the will of Ralph.  The audience can see that Ralph does not exist, but the characters all think Ralph exists because they have seen proof (unlikely events that are good).  You are a character in that movie, where you can't tell that there's no God because you attribute every good, unlikely event to him.

Ok.  But you missed something.  Everything is from God.  Good and evil.

1Sa 16:14  But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. 
1Sa 16:15  And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. 


There's even an e-mail in there where Johan and Monika are basically saying...Jesus told me you are wrong...No, Jesus told me YOU are wrong.

That you will always notice  with the religious people.  Why do you think it is happening? 

And secondly . . . one of us is right.  So how do we judge that now?


When religious people attribute everything to a God that doesn't exist, none of them are right.

Here is a quote from your e-mail chain where Monica, who is quoting Jesus from a vision, is in lower case text and your response is in uppercase text:

Quote
Because Johan has never met Me, his Savior and Master and King,

UNTRUE . .  . AS I MET AND LIVE WITH HIM FOR MANY YEARS NOW . . . AND I KNOW THAT EVERYBODY IN ROBERTSON KNOWS  AT LEAST THAT . . . . .

ALTHOUGH THEY DO NOT ACCEPT MUCH THAT I AM DOING . . . BUT THIS  . . .EVERYBODY KNOWS IS  JUST . . . NOT THE TRUTH!


In this instance, Monica says she has spoken to Jesus and that Jesus said that you have NEVER met him.  You say that she is wrong because you have had a vision where you met Jesus.  To her, her vision is real and yours is fake, and to you, your vision is real and hers is fake.  The most likely explanation is that both of your visions are fake, especially since you both interpret as miracles everyday events such as someone on a forum seriously engaging you.

One of us is right.  Not according to you but according to our religious people.  Because I have witnesses.  That e-mail forum is my witness.  I spoke in front of them.  Nobody disagreed.  She on thee other hand had no proof. 

And the best proof is actually the result of what happened.  If nothing Good came from it she was right.  But on the other hand if much good was the result then I was the one that heard correctly.

The reason for this differences is just because we are born into the Life of God.  And as such we are Babies in the beginning.

1Pe 2:2  As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: 
1Pe 2:3  If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 

And Babies and Small Children does not understand much.  But at least they are learning to speak even though it is sometimes wrong. 

 

Offline Johan

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 127
Re: Superman and God
« Reply #261 on: December 12, 2017, 10:56:47 AM »
http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/

I can't see that link from work, which is the only place I'm willing to spend time looking into this.  Also, I think I have a good enough understand of where you are coming from now.

I do have a question, though.  From the e-mail chain, it seems like nobody else believes you.  Is that the case, or do you have followers that believe you and are also trying to become Gods as you have?

If somebody does not believe me they say it.  When they keep quiet they either does not know and give God a chance to speak to them too or they believe it.

This is part of Christian teaching.  We do not try to become God's.  We are.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/205133-born-again/

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/our-children.8029001/

http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/born-again.68720/


Offline Billzbub

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2905
  • I know you know I know
Re: Superman and God
« Reply #262 on: December 12, 2017, 11:09:56 AM »
I was trying to see if it contained the point that you are trying to get at.  Your posts on this forum so far were beating around the bush, and I wanted to cut to the chase.

Ok.  Did you succeed?

Yes, I think so.


Ok.  But you missed something.  Everything is from God.  Good and evil.

See, we've cut to the chase right here!  We require evidence that there is a God before believing that one exists, but from your point of view that everything is from God, you think that everything that happens is evidence that God exists.  I don't think we will be able to convince you that everything that happens could have happened with our without the existence of a God and therefore is not proof that God exists.

Let me try another way.  We think that God doesn't exist and that good and evil are natural.  You think that good and evil come from God.  We think that our view is correct and yours is incorrect based on a lack of objective evidence that God exists.  You think that your view is correct and our view is incorrect just because you know it to be true (no evidence required).  Humans are really good at mistakenly thinking things are true (just look at politics as a wonderful example of this), which is why objective proof should be required before just assuming that everything is from God.  Why do you think your human interpretation of the world where Good and Evil comes from God is correct and that our view that God does not exist is not correct when humans are so easily misled?  The trick is, you have to convince us without basing all your evidence on the statement that everything is from God, because that would be circular reasoning:  "I know that everything comes from God because everything I have seen came from God".
Quote from: Steven Novella
gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor

Offline Billzbub

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2905
  • I know you know I know
Re: Superman and God
« Reply #263 on: December 12, 2017, 11:31:38 AM »
http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/

I can't see that link from work, which is the only place I'm willing to spend time looking into this.  Also, I think I have a good enough understand of where you are coming from now.

I do have a question, though.  From the e-mail chain, it seems like nobody else believes you.  Is that the case, or do you have followers that believe you and are also trying to become Gods as you have?

If somebody does not believe me they say it.  When they keep quiet they either does not know and give God a chance to speak to them too or they believe it.

This is part of Christian teaching.  We do not try to become God's.  We are.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/205133-born-again/

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/our-children.8029001/

http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/born-again.68720/

You said that if people disagree with you, they say so, and if they are quiet, they either are thinking about it or they agree.  However, you didn't say that anyone has actually SAID they agree with you.  I read the three links you posted in this message, and nobody in those threads understands what you are saying, let alone agrees with you.

Your communication style of interspersing bible quotes with your own sentences without saying what you actually mean is really interfering with you getting your message across.  Just tell them that you think that when a Christian is "born again", they become Gods.

Oh, that made me think of another question.  Do you believe that you are all knowing and all powerful just like God now that you are a God?
Quote from: Steven Novella
gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor

Offline Johan

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 127
Re: Superman and God
« Reply #264 on: December 12, 2017, 01:08:21 PM »
I was trying to see if it contained the point that you are trying to get at.  Your posts on this forum so far were beating around the bush, and I wanted to cut to the chase.

Ok.  Did you succeed?


Yes, I think so.


Ok.  But you missed something.  Everything is from God.  Good and evil.

See, we've cut to the chase right here!  We require evidence that there is a God before believing that one exists, but from your point of view that everything is from God, you think that everything that happens is evidence that God exists.  I don't think we will be able to convince you that everything that happens could have happened with our without the existence of a God and therefore is not proof that God exists.

Let me try another way.  We think that God doesn't exist and that good and evil are natural.  You think that good and evil come from God.  We think that our view is correct and yours is incorrect based on a lack of objective evidence that God exists.  You think that your view is correct and our view is incorrect just because you know it to be true (no evidence required).  Humans are really good at mistakenly thinking things are true (just look at politics as a wonderful example of this), which is why objective proof should be required before just assuming that everything is from God.  Why do you think your human interpretation of the world where Good and Evil comes from God is correct and that our view that God does not exist is not correct when humans are so easily misled?  The trick is, you have to convince us without basing all your evidence on the statement that everything is from God, because that would be circular reasoning:  "I know that everything comes from God because everything I have seen came from God".

Ok. "w cut to the chase".  If you look carefully at the links you will see that I am a God too.  Actually I am His Wife.  And that now bring us into the True Reality of what is going on here.  I am actually debating from that point of view that I am your Mother or Mother(to be)

Offline Johan

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 127
Re: Superman and God
« Reply #265 on: December 12, 2017, 01:13:26 PM »
http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/

I can't see that link from work, which is the only place I'm willing to spend time looking into this.  Also, I think I have a good enough understand of where you are coming from now.

I do have a question, though.  From the e-mail chain, it seems like nobody else believes you.  Is that the case, or do you have followers that believe you and are also trying to become Gods as you have?



If somebody does not believe me they say it.  When they keep quiet they either does not know and give God a chance to speak to them too or they believe it.

This is part of Christian teaching.  We do not try to become God's.  We are.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/205133-born-again/

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/our-children.8029001/

http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/born-again.68720/

You said that if people disagree with you, they say so, and if they are quiet, they either are thinking about it or they agree.  However, you didn't say that anyone has actually SAID they agree with you.  I read the three links you posted in this message, and nobody in those threads understands what you are saying, let alone agrees with you.

Your communication style of interspersing bible quotes with your own sentences without saying what you actually mean is really interfering with you getting your message across.  Just tell them that you think that when a Christian is "born again", they become Gods.

Oh, that made me think of another question.  Do you believe that you are all knowing and all powerful just like God now that you are a God?

Ok seems we are really going "to cut the chase now".  So here it is.  We grow into that Life more and more.  So what God is is becoming more and more a reality.  As I am His Wife now I am putting this forward to them to digest.  Some struggle.

http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/Members%20reactions.htm

http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/Members%20reactions1.htm

http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/Members%20reactions2.htm

http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/Members%20reactions3.htm

http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/Members%20reactions4.htm

http://johanabrahams.pnyhost.com/Authority%20reactions.htm

Offline Billzbub

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2905
  • I know you know I know
Re: Superman and God
« Reply #266 on: December 13, 2017, 10:37:00 AM »
I read all of those.  For those of you who are unwilling to sift through it, it is a copy of a thread from a Christian forum where Johan claims to be the wife of God and the mother of humanity.  The others on the forum pointed out how he was using scripture out of context to try and make his point.  They pointed out that he wasn't communicating clearly, and Johan said several times that he speaks as God directs and that if people don't understand it, it is because they need revelation from God.  They gave him a few more chances to explain what he was trying to say, and he kept saying that they needed revelation from God, so they locked his thread.

Johan, the reason God is not giving revelations to them or to us so that we can understand you is because God doesn't actually exist.  If God existed and you were correct with your beliefs, then God would be giving revelations to everyone you are communicating with, and your movement would be gaining strength.  How long can you go on believing that God is loving and all powerful, that all people need is his revelation to understand your words, and it never actually happening?  At some point, you have to realize that human beings including you are fallible, and that you have made a mistake.
Quote from: Steven Novella
gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor

Offline Johan

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 127
Re: Superman and God
« Reply #267 on: Today at 07:22:42 AM »
I read all of those.  For those of you who are unwilling to sift through it, it is a copy of a thread from a Christian forum where Johan claims to be the wife of God and the mother of humanity.  The others on the forum pointed out how he was using scripture out of context to try and make his point.

You really are a reader.  Good for you.  But something you need to notice here is that it was my actual "Living" of what I taught on that got me into trouble.  Nobody actually has a big problem with the teaching.

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-marriage.8017710/

http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/his-wife.68761/

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/discuss-articles-on-gcm/the-mariage/msg1055077218/#msg1055077218

So the teaching goes but then the reality of the teaching gives problems to those that do not know me.

But where I am well known it is mostly not rejected.  Only some has a bit of a problem with it as it is a New Revelation mostly unheard of.

https://web.facebook.com/johan.abrahams.7/posts/1168519096617880

https://web.facebook.com/johan.abrahams.7/posts/1154115591391564?comment_id=1155696217900168&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D



They pointed out that he wasn't communicating clearly, and Johan said several times that he speaks as God directs and that if people don't understand it, it is because they need revelation from God.  They gave him a few more chances to explain what he was trying to say, and he kept saying that they needed revelation from God, so they locked his thread.

Actually they banned me because I can no longer write any things there.  But everything of me was accepted up to then.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/profile/167923-johan-abrahams/


Johan, the reason God is not giving revelations to them or to us so that we can understand you is because God doesn't actually exist.  If God existed and you were correct with your beliefs, then God would be giving revelations to everyone you are communicating with, and your movement would be gaining strength.  How long can you go on believing that God is loving and all powerful, that all people need is his revelation to understand your words, and it never actually happening?  At some point, you have to realize that human beings including you are fallible, and that you have made a mistake.

Nope.  There you miss it.  That is an accepted fact everywhere that God give the revelations.  They only didn't get it for other reasons and not because revelations does not exist. 

Others do get it.

And here is a forum based on that fact.  And they accept who I am.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/perfectgrace/messages/?msg=1528.7

And then you get these people.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/theeagles/messages/?msg=2382.5


They actually had a prophet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_M._Branham

And the coming of the Wife of God were the center of his message.

http://www.williambranhamhomepage.org/visbride.htm