Author Topic: diabetes and politics  (Read 406 times)

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Offline lonely moa

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diabetes and politics
« on: December 05, 2017, 11:56:01 AM »
Congessman Tim Ryan said in Morning Joe what I have heard from Robb Wolf, Chriss Kresser, Dr David Perlmutter, etc., that half of the US population is diabetic or pre-diabetic and the cost of treating that particular chronic disease will sink the US economy.  He said that the US needed to adress the root causes, ag subsiies, school food programmes, sugar in food and more.  He's up for a thumping from some big industry (agricultural, food and pharmaceutical) lobbyists.

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Online Billzbub

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Re: diabetes and politics
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2017, 12:26:07 PM »
I better start stockpiling!

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Online daniel1948

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Re: diabetes and politics
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2017, 12:39:56 PM »
Congessman Tim Ryan said in Morning Joe [that] the cost of treating [diabetes] will sink the US economy....

While I agree that the average American is in dreadful shape, there are so many health issues, and so much inefficiency and stupidity in our health care system, that I think it's unwarranted to single out any one of them as the cause of our woes, or that any one of them will "sink the U.S. economy."

Plus, since we don't have any sort of guaranteed or universal health care, people who can't pay just don't get care, reducing their effect on the economy. Rich people get care, which they pay for in their rising premiums, poor people don't. Thus limiting the effect of any one disease on the economy. I assure you, we are well on our way to sinking our economy even without chronic diabetes.
Daniel
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Offline lonely moa

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Re: diabetes and politics
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2017, 05:48:47 PM »
Congessman Tim Ryan said in Morning Joe [that] the cost of treating [diabetes] will sink the US economy....

While I agree that the average American is in dreadful shape, there are so many health issues, and so much inefficiency and stupidity in our health care system, that I think it's unwarranted to single out any one of them as the cause of our woes, or that any one of them will "sink the U.S. economy."

Plus, since we don't have any sort of guaranteed or universal health care, people who can't pay just don't get care, reducing their effect on the economy. Rich people get care, which they pay for in their rising premiums, poor people don't. Thus limiting the effect of any one disease on the economy. I assure you, we are well on our way to sinking our economy even without chronic diabetes.

More than 100 million Americans have diabetes or pre-diabetes.  Given that it costs $14K/person/yr and that a 20 something might need 50 years of treatment and the number of affected, I think this is the chronic disease that will hurt the economy... even in NZ.  Unless one wishes to see the poor amputating each others feet and using home built dialysis machines in the street, everyone will pay.


https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2017/p0718-diabetes-report.html
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: diabetes and politics
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2017, 11:20:23 PM »
How many Americans had type II diabetes 50 years ago?


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Offline Desert Fox

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Re: diabetes and politics
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 02:52:15 AM »
How many Americans had type II diabetes 50 years ago?

Probably a  lot more than is commonly thought, just undiagnosed.
I am a Type 2 myself and I seem to have held good health for something like 10 years just through Metformen and exercise.
I doubt I cost 14 k a year.
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Online daniel1948

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Re: diabetes and politics
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 08:39:53 AM »
...  Unless one wishes to see the poor amputating each others feet ...

I know nothing about the politics of NZ, but if recent political trends continue in the U.S., this is precisely what we're heading for. (Though seriously, they are unlikely to amputate each others' feet. They'll just die at home, out of sight of the media.)
Daniel
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Offline lonely moa

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Re: diabetes and politics
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 01:23:13 PM »
How many Americans had type II diabetes 50 years ago?

Probably a  lot more than is commonly thought, just undiagnosed.
I am a Type 2 myself and I seem to have held good health for something like 10 years just through Metformen and exercise.
I doubt I cost 14 k a year.

The cost in the US was $340 billion last year, that's about a thousand dollars for every citizen. Dialisys, amputations and other complicaions are very expensive.

Volek and Phinney, https://www.virtahealth.com/team, have a better plan.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: diabetes and politics
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 02:24:25 PM »
How many Americans had type II diabetes 50 years ago?

Probably a  lot more than is commonly thought, just undiagnosed.
I am a Type 2 myself and I seem to have held good health for something like 10 years just through Metformen and exercise.
I doubt I cost 14 k a year.

Nope. Probably closer to zero. The collection of symptoms that form a diagnosis of T2D were basically unheard of until the 1960s.

T2D is a progressive disease (without a dietary change). The progress is slowed by Metformin, which lowers blood sugar, but does nothing to address the cause. Exercise helps temporarily reduces insulin resistance, which helps lower blood sugar, but does nothing to address the cause.

 
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Offline Desert Fox

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Re: diabetes and politics
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2017, 05:51:12 AM »
How many Americans had type II diabetes 50 years ago?

Probably a  lot more than is commonly thought, just undiagnosed.
I am a Type 2 myself and I seem to have held good health for something like 10 years just through Metformen and exercise.
I doubt I cost 14 k a year.

Nope. Probably closer to zero. The collection of symptoms that form a diagnosis of T2D were basically unheard of until the 1960s.

T2D is a progressive disease (without a dietary change). The progress is slowed by Metformin, which lowers blood sugar, but does nothing to address the cause. Exercise helps temporarily reduces insulin resistance, which helps lower blood sugar, but does nothing to address the cause.

There were already drugs in the 1950s for Type II  ???
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Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: diabetes and politics
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2017, 06:46:00 AM »
How many Americans had type II diabetes 50 years ago?

Probably a  lot more than is commonly thought, just undiagnosed.
I am a Type 2 myself and I seem to have held good health for something like 10 years just through Metformen and exercise.
I doubt I cost 14 k a year.

Nope. Probably closer to zero. The collection of symptoms that form a diagnosis of T2D were basically unheard of until the 1960s.

T2D is a progressive disease (without a dietary change). The progress is slowed by Metformin, which lowers blood sugar, but does nothing to address the cause. Exercise helps temporarily reduces insulin resistance, which helps lower blood sugar, but does nothing to address the cause.

There were already drugs in the 1950s for Type II  ???
Type 2 Diabetes was recorded as early as 500AD. Never expect proponents of woo to come armed with facts.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: diabetes and politics
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2017, 12:05:04 PM »
How many Americans had type II diabetes 50 years ago?
Probably a  lot more than is commonly thought, just undiagnosed.


Quote
There were already drugs in the 1950s for Type II  ???


Type 2 Diabetes was recorded as early as 500AD. Never expect proponents of woo to come armed with facts.

So again, the question is: How many Americans had type II diabetes 50 years ago?



« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 01:17:35 PM by CarbShark »
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Offline lonely moa

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Re: diabetes and politics
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2017, 12:56:17 PM »
1.58 million in the US.  About 10% considered obese in the 1950's.

https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/statistics/slides/long_term_trends.pdf
"Our minds are not quite designed to understand how the world works, but, rather, to get out of trouble rapidly an have progeny."  Nassim Nicholas Taleb

Offline CarbShark

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Re: diabetes and politics
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2017, 01:44:34 PM »
1.58 million in the US.  About 10% considered obese in the 1950's.

https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/statistics/slides/long_term_trends.pdf

The 1.58 million in that data are those diagnosed with Diabetes (Which includes both types). Type II was not recognized as such until later.

The prevalence of TID has remained fairly constant while the prevalence of TIID has increased dramatically.

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Offline Desert Fox

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Re: diabetes and politics
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2017, 06:07:02 PM »
Your argument is that there were just about zero with undiagnosed type II diabetes in the 1950s. Even if we assume 10% of the population is obese* in 1950, we are still taking about 15 million obese individuals.

It is hard to find numbers that make sense because some numbers break down into 75% of obese individuals having type II diabetes.

Still, even if we go with something like 33% of obese individuals getting type II diabetes, we are still talking about around 4.5 million people compared to 1.5 million being argued (including both types). Based on that, I would argue for a lot of undiagnosed cases of type II diabetes in the 1950s.

*Note that I have never been obese, only overweight and was on the lower end of overweight.



"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
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