Author Topic: Episode #649  (Read 4691 times)

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Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2017, 01:19:45 PM »
I enjoy you on the forums very much Daniel, but you do definitely look at everyone's experiences through the lens of your own life.
Some of my best memories as a kid revolve around the fantasy world Star Wars built as well, but I think that speaks a lot to my privilege, and to yours too. There are plenty of people who don't have the means to explore and experience the bigger world, and to call that sad seems harsh.

Plus hyperbole. Lots and lots of hyperbole. How many times does Jay call something epic, or say it's the best thing ever? I do it too. In the moment I might say one of my best memories is going to the drive-in to see Star Wars, but that's one of literally a thousand best memories.  :D
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2017, 03:44:10 PM »
I enjoy you on the forums very much Daniel, but you do definitely look at everyone's experiences through the lens of your own life. ...

Yeah, that's my Aspergers. And FWIW, I never intend to offend or insult anyone (except I suppose racists and homophobes and similar haters). And certainly one of my biases is a prejudice against movies as a genre.
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Offline Ron Obvious

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2017, 09:34:43 PM »
Sorry. I still don't understand why my posts were so offensive as to arouse such anger, and I've long been under the impression that the rogues don't even read these forums. But I accept your

Don't let the bastards get you down, Daniel. You are perfectly genuine and not in the least offensive.  It's just the times we live in, and no, I don't understand them either (I'm about your age).

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2017, 08:34:32 AM »
Sorry. I still don't understand why my posts were so offensive as to arouse such anger, and I've long been under the impression that the rogues don't even read these forums. But I accept your

Don't let the bastards get you down, Daniel. You are perfectly genuine and not in the least offensive.  It's just the times we live in, and no, I don't understand them either (I'm about your age).

Thank you.

But I do respect The Latinist, and I recognize that I have no social skills (though I do have feelings and empathy), so if he feels I should remove the posts that he regards as offensive, I will.
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Online Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2017, 09:06:34 AM »
And, yes, I really think it's sad if at their age, you've never had anything more exciting happen in your life than seeing a movie with your dad. A lot of people are stuck in dull lives. And that is sad.
If the best experience of your life was watching Star Wars with your dad, you must have had a pretty dull life. Even if you really feel it was the best movie you've ever seen, watching a movie should never be the best experience of one's life. That is so sad!
So these are the posts in question.   Its basically saying that folks who have different interests than Daniel are sad and a little pathetic.  It is also a statement of privilege, there are kids out there that don't have the resources to have "interesting" lives.  Maybe going to the movies with dad was the most exciting memory of their childhood.  And then comes Daniel, with his, how sad!  Well that maybe for daniel but for folks that really like movies, its a good time and kind of a shitty thing to disparage their choices.

I find rich folks tend to make a virtue of their hobbies,  Traveling and exotic trips being high among those hobbies that the well off put on a pedestal.  That's sad really. 

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2017, 10:21:29 AM »
I’m sorry, Daniel, I should not have said that you lack human emotion; I don’t really think that of you.  What I do think is that your statements are incredibly judgmental and show a lack of empathy.  You are right that you frequently show a generalized empathy for human suffering, but I think you need to recognize that, because you have difficulty understanding interpersonal relationships, there is a whole class of human experience with which you may not adequately empathize, a fact which I think is on display here.  What is offensive about your posts is that they reduce the experience Jay talked about to “watching a movie,” completely ignoring the element of human relationships that is the root of Jay’s feelings.

I don’t know what your relationship with your own father is, but I will confess that some of my most cherished memories from childhood—things I might easily describe as the best experiences of many life—are of doing things of the type you dismiss here as “pathetic.”  I’ve travelled to Greece and met the President of the United States and visited breathtaking natural wonders here in the US, but I don’t know that any memory is better than that of sitting on my grandfather’s tractor with my Dad as he tedded hay; it is tied up with all sorts of emotions, attitudes m, and my image of myself and my dad.  It’s a formative memory in the same way that Jay describes his experience of Star Wars for the first time with his dad.  What you did in your posts is the equivalent of dismissing one of my fondest memories of my father as “a tractor ride.”

No, you should not delete your posts.  You should own them and hopefully learn from them not to dismiss the experiences of others in such cavalier ways. Learn to appreciate and respect people’s experiences of the world even if they differ from your own; and when you just can’t manage it, shut the hell up.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2017, 07:57:43 PM »
I’m sorry, Daniel, I should not have said that you lack human emotion; I don’t really think that of you.  What I do think is that your statements are incredibly judgmental and show a lack of empathy.  You are right that you frequently show a generalized empathy for human suffering, but I think you need to recognize that, because you have difficulty understanding interpersonal relationships, there is a whole class of human experience with which you may not adequately empathize, a fact which I think is on display here.  What is offensive about your posts is that they reduce the experience Jay talked about to “watching a movie,” completely ignoring the element of human relationships that is the root of Jay’s feelings.

I don’t know what your relationship with your own father is, but I will confess that some of my most cherished memories from childhood—things I might easily describe as the best experiences of many life—are of doing things of the type you dismiss here as “pathetic.”  I’ve travelled to Greece and met the President of the United States and visited breathtaking natural wonders here in the US, but I don’t know that any memory is better than that of sitting on my grandfather’s tractor with my Dad as he tedded hay; it is tied up with all sorts of emotions, attitudes m, and my image of myself and my dad.  It’s a formative memory in the same way that Jay describes his experience of Star Wars for the first time with his dad.  What you did in your posts is the equivalent of dismissing one of my fondest memories of my father as “a tractor ride.”

No, you should not delete your posts.  You should own them and hopefully learn from them not to dismiss the experiences of others in such cavalier ways. Learn to appreciate and respect people’s experiences of the world even if they differ from your own; and when you just can’t manage it, shut the hell up.

Guilty as charged. Mostly. I do feel empathy for others. I lack the social skills to always recognize when a comment of mine might be perceived as offensive. I do not hide my opinions, and this has often made me unpopular for my atheism, my politics (I was a communist when I was younger until I decided that was utopian and became a socialist), and even my vegetarianism. Yes, I've had people actually get angry at me for not eating meat. I speak out about injustices. My relationship with my father was pretty much nothing. My step-mother made it pretty much impossible to have much of a relationship with him, and he had no idea how to relate to kids, including his own. But that's not really relevant here. I never intentionally try to be offensive or insulting (except towards bigots, as noted before) and I'm always trying to improve. But don't expect miracles. I've lived entirely alone for 50 years, except for the 15 years I had a cat, and the six months I was in prison. I'm not ashamed of what I am, but I do try to learn from my mistakes. And I thank you for pointing them out to me.
Daniel
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Offline seamas

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2017, 12:11:16 PM »
If the best experience of your life was watching Star Wars with your dad, you must have had a pretty dull life.

+1.
I am a huge fan of the show but their Star wars blather I could do without.
Star Wars was a fun popcorn movie, I just don't get the obsession about it at all. Most of the movies really suck.
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Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2017, 01:20:55 PM »
If the best experience of your life was watching Star Wars with your dad, you must have had a pretty dull life.

+1.
I am a huge fan of the show but their Star wars blather I could do without.
Star Wars was a fun popcorn movie, I just don't get the obsession about it at all. Most of the movies really suck.


Yeah, most of them aren't remarkable now.  :D It's difficult to ignore the cultural context though. I freaking hate football, but I'd be a blithering idiot to say that football is terrible and has no value in some objective way.
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Offline seamas

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2017, 01:42:28 PM »
I would never say that football or Star Wars have no value, just that their value is more about commerce and merchandising than anything.
Artistically the whole Star Wars things is about as over-hyped as it gets. Good costume design, some godawful acting  middling soap opera story lines.
I honestly do not understand the anticipation this particular installment received, as the previous one was  probably the most forgettable of the lot*, with one of the lamest villains I can recall.


* episodes 1-3 were far worse, but memorable because of their awfulness.
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Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2017, 01:54:46 PM »
That's difficult to disagree with. In a writing class at UCLA a guest lecturer came in once and passed out notecards to all 120 people or so in the room and asked everyone to list their favorite film. He then collected the cards as an exercise in writing a simple log line to "pitch" the film.
As an aside he asked a show of hands for everyone who wrote down a movie they first saw when they were around 10-13 years old. Nearly the entire room, regardless of their current age, raised their hands. I think that is extremely telling.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2017, 02:14:21 PM »
Spectator sports are another thing I just don't get. I totally understand playing sports, though I don't do it myself. You get some fresh air and exercise with your friends. But sitting on your ass watching? I don't get it. When I lived in Fargo I went to the Family Y (formerly YMCA) to use the gym. There was a guy who was often in the locker room at the same time as I was, who would rant and cuss against some kid who made a mistake in a high-school ball game. He would get absolutely livid. I wanted to say "Hey, he's a kid, and it's just a damn game!" I don't know, maybe this guy had a habit of betting big money on high school ball games. When I was in Barcelona one time they had a big soccer game between Germany and England. After the game the fans spent the night in the square a few blocks from my hotel and in the morning it was so littered with beer bottles, other trash, discarded clothing, and barf that there was more trash than exposed concrete. And in South America they once had a war over a soccer game! An actual war with soldiers killing each other and planes dropping bombs. Over a soccer game!

I just don't get it.

As for Star Wars, Spaceballs was a better movie, and that was mediocre.

Obviously (I hope) all the above is just my opinion and not intended to offend anyone who holds contrary opinions.
Daniel
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Offline seamas

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2017, 02:46:20 PM »
That's difficult to disagree with. In a writing class at UCLA a guest lecturer came in once and passed out notecards to all 120 people or so in the room and asked everyone to list their favorite film. He then collected the cards as an exercise in writing a simple log line to "pitch" the film.
As an aside he asked a show of hands for everyone who wrote down a movie they first saw when they were around 10-13 years old. Nearly the entire room, regardless of their current age, raised their hands. I think that is extremely telling.

Same thing happens with music for most people. It's telling all right.
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Offline Swagomatic

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2017, 02:57:06 PM »
Spectator sports are another thing I just don't get. I totally understand playing sports, though I don't do it myself. You get some fresh air and exercise with your friends. But sitting on your ass watching? I don't get it. When I lived in Fargo I went to the Family Y (formerly YMCA) to use the gym. There was a guy who was often in the locker room at the same time as I was, who would rant and cuss against some kid who made a mistake in a high-school ball game. He would get absolutely livid. I wanted to say "Hey, he's a kid, and it's just a damn game!" I don't know, maybe this guy had a habit of betting big money on high school ball games. When I was in Barcelona one time they had a big soccer game between Germany and England. After the game the fans spent the night in the square a few blocks from my hotel and in the morning it was so littered with beer bottles, other trash, discarded clothing, and barf that there was more trash than exposed concrete. And in South America they once had a war over a soccer game! An actual war with soldiers killing each other and planes dropping bombs. Over a soccer game!

I just don't get it.

As for Star Wars, Spaceballs was a better movie, and that was mediocre.

Obviously (I hope) all the above is just my opinion and not intended to offend anyone who holds contrary opinions.

Regarding sports, I really don't understand it either, but I love to watch it.  I will watch anything live from little league baseball to professional soccer.  The key to really enjoying it is to not have a serious stake in the outcome. I must admit that my interest in professional football & basketball has waned over the past ten years or so.  I still love baseball the same, however.
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Offline Tassie Dave

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2017, 03:35:00 AM »
Spectator sports are another thing I just don't get. I totally understand playing sports, though I don't do it myself. You get some fresh air and exercise with your friends. But sitting on your ass watching? I don't get it.

I feel sorry for you. I love watching sports. I did play when I was younger, Mainly Aussie Rules, Cricket, Soccer and Hockey (Real hockey not that ice shit  ;) )
But watching sports you love can be an emotional past time and it's also tribal. The feeling of belonging to a group of people with the same passion.

I will admit that I have cried during sporting events. In fact I have cried watching the last 2 AFL Grand Finals. (My all time favourite sport)
In 2016 because I had wanted to see the battling working man's club Western Bulldogs win my entire life (54 years at that point)

This year I cried because the team I have followed for 51 years, won their first Championship in 37 years, after struggling and nearly disappearing.

To paraphrase a great quote:

Football is not just a matter of life and death: it's much more important than that.

 

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