Author Topic: Episode #649  (Read 4710 times)

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Offline DevoutCatalyst

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2017, 07:20:15 AM »
I feel sorry for you. I love watching sports. I did play when I was younger, Mainly Aussie Rules, Cricket, Soccer and Hockey (Real hockey not that ice shit  ;) )
But watching sports you love can be an emotional past time and it's also tribal. The feeling of belonging to a group of people with the same passion.

I've never been to Australia, yet Aussie Rules is the first sport that ever grabbed me and wouldn't let go and this was fairly recently, late in life. To fall in love with any sport pick a side and stick with it, the tribal aspect seems to me is key. Another game, soccer, called 'football' in most places, is a visually unexciting game, but one I find exciting if my beloved Bodø/Glimt is playing, especially if I have my toothbrush (you wouldn't understand). Ten-pin bowling is the most boring game ever, right? No, because all too frequently the match is decided at the very end -- pick a player or team and suddenly it matters to you, too. (Plus ten-pin appeals to the inner geek via those complex machines called automatic pinsetters). (Plus there's Belmo, another Australian innovation).

I will admit that I have cried during sporting events. In fact I have cried watching the last 2 AFL Grand Finals. (My all time favourite sport)
In 2016 because I had wanted to see the battling working man's club Western Bulldogs win my entire life (54 years at that point)

This year I cried because the team I have followed for 51 years, won their first Championship in 37 years, after struggling and nearly disappearing.

Both were excellent games, the Doggies for being the triumphant underdogs and Richmond for their unrelenting pedal to the metal style of play against Adelaide. I just re-watched the 2017 Grand Final in its entirety a few days ago as I am becoming stir crazy without football in the off season. In retrospect only in the first quarter was there any doubt, it was exciting to observe how the game just kept building up to that great crescendo, the Richmond supporters glowing red by half time then turning white hot by the time the final siren made it official. I'm not sure anyone at the MCG actually heard the siren but all knew when it had sounded.

Football is not just a matter of life and death: it's much more important than that.

The women's AFLW season begins February 2nd and I'm ready, got my online season pass in an email just yesterday. And for the 2018 AFL season, unlike the Bulldogs, I expect the Tigers will be a threat to the competition once again and for years to come. See you there. Aussie Rules, greatest team sport on planet earth.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2017, 09:54:49 AM »
You should check out Irish Football, apparently the rules are so similar they regularly play cross sport matches with Aussie rules teams.  If you are in the the US or UK, there's a chance of there being some local players. 

I can watch American Football and Basketball, pretty much anyother sport bores the crap out of me.  Even those sports infrequent viewing for me. 

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2017, 10:28:13 AM »
When I was a little kid, and forced against my will to spend alternate weekends at the house of my father and step-mother, my father's idea of spending "quality time" together was to watch football on TV. He preferred college football. It bored the crap out of me. I had to sit there for hours on end while he watched football. I don't know if he thought I would like it, or if he thought I should like it, or if he thought that forcing me to watch it would teach me to like it. When I was a bit older I would just go to the other side of the room where I didn't have to look at the television. Don't remember for sure, but I probably read a book instead. My step-mother was a bibliophile. There were valuable books I was not allowed to touch, but there were also books for reading. (In my mother's house, all the books were for reading. My father, who never read books, married two book-lovers in a row.)
Daniel
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2017, 10:40:23 AM »
Can anyone summarize the Aussie rules?  I have to say that during the last Olympics I became quite enamored of the rugby sevens; it struck me as a kind of distillation of all the best parts of football/rugby.

Daniel: I wonder—have you ever had the experience of an event or activity being important or meaningful merely because of who you do it with?
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2017, 10:41:43 AM »
Daniel, Is it possible your father was just trying to share something he enjoyed with his son?

My father and I shared a number of activities that years later we realized neither of particularly enjoyed but we both did because we thought the other liked.  Sure, there's communication issues that should have been resolved but its a funny story we both enjoy now. 

Offline DevoutCatalyst

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2017, 11:11:36 AM »
Can anyone summarize the Aussie rules? 



Ad for the AFLW women's league,

« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 11:18:21 AM by DevoutCatalyst »

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2017, 11:35:22 AM »
Daniel: I wonder—have you ever had the experience of an event or activity being important or meaningful merely because of who you do it with?

No. However, there are people who are special to me because of what I do with them. My favorite hiking lodge is one I've been going to nearly every year for a decade now. The two daughters of the family that owns and operates it were 11 and 13 when I first went there, and they were a lot of fun when they joined us on the hikes. Now they are grown up, are full-on hiking guides, and because they've lived their entire lives there, they know the area and when they guide me they take me off-trail to places they never take the groups. (I pay extra for a private guide so that I'm not going to the same places over and over.) Those two girls are special to me because of the hikes they take me on, and they're a lot of fun to hike with. There are other guides who are special to me because hiking is so much fun, so a really good guide is special.

I can imagine that if I had a girlfriend, spending time with her would be special regardless of what we were doing. But I haven't had a girlfriend since I was 15.

Daniel, Is it possible your father was just trying to share something he enjoyed with his son?

Certainly, at first. But I made it abundantly clear that it bored the crap out of me. Going so far, when I was a bit older, as to go sit elsewhere. But if there was a college football game on, he was in front of the tv. And since it was always weekends when I was there, that was a lot of our time together.

He also occasionally took me to a baseball game (which I probably enjoyed when I was much younger) but only if the stadium was not sold out and he could get tickets cheap from a scalper. The best part of that was that it was a few hours away from my step-mother. The odd thing is that he was a generous tipper and always generous with money and donated a lot (I mean a LOT!) to progressive causes, but would not pay full price for tickets to a baseball game, so we only ever saw games that didn't get much public interest. I've never figured that out about him. I think I was probably around 10 when baseball ceased to interest me. He was also a fan of track and field. He took me to a track meet once, Russia vs. the U.S., and it was the first time that a new method of putting the shot was introduced. It involved starting with their back to the field and spinning around for the throw. Every shot-putter put the shot beyond the prepared field for it. That was impressive. At least this is how I remember it. It would have been more than 50 years ago, and we all know what memory can do to facts in 50 years.
Daniel
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“You say you love your children above all else, and yet you are stealing their future in front of their very eyes.”
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2017, 11:53:42 AM »
I think, Daniel, that that is what is making it so hard for you to appreciate what Jay meant. You are judging only the objective quality of the experience of seeing a movie, and cannot comprehend that what Jay is talking about has very little to do with the movie at all.  It’s all about the human relationships—who he was doing it with.  And just as you think it’s sad that “seeing a movie” is Jay’s favorite memory, I think it’s sad that you have never experienced the magic of “doing something with your dad”—that you could not appreciate that your father was sharing something of himself with you when he wanted to watch football with you, but that all you could see was a stupid football game.  That thought genuinely makes me sad.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Online Harry Black

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2017, 12:30:01 PM »
Guys, can we stop with the "I feel sorry/sad for you" bullshit?
Its very patronising and insulting.
I give zero fucks about organised competition of any kind. I dont get that feeling people get when a crowd of people who agree with them at a concert or other crowded event are getting really excited. Ive said before that I find it to be the single most terrifying thing about humanity and that it confuses the shit out of me because I cant relate. Im in a crowd of people losing their shit at a club or event and I feel like Im in some sort of weird sci fi movie where everyone is infected with something.
And I used to feel sorry for you all, but then I realised I was being an asshole.
Ive never in my life experienced the kind of emotion people seem to go through at seeing their favourite artist or team nail the thing they do, even when surviving life or death situations and I am 100% ok with that. You can keep it and Im glad it makes you happy.
If your happiness does  not require me to have to turn up my headphones or leave a bar, Im even happier.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2017, 02:06:28 PM »
Guys, can we stop with the "I feel sorry/sad for you" bullshit?
Its very patronising and insulting.

I, for one, do not feel the least bit insulted or patronized when someone says they feel sorry/sad for me because my experiences or opinions differ from theirs.

I accept (without really understanding) that my use of that language was considered offensive. But if someone says they find it sad that I don't enjoy watching football, or that I do enjoy hiking in the mountains or snorkeling with turtles, or whatever, I take it as their expression of their feelings, not as a disparagement of mine or of me. And I appreciate their openness because words are the only form of communication I can understand.

My father wanted to "share" his love of football with me, even knowing that I found the tedium of it painful. He never played with me. Ever. He was very generous with money but his only forms of communication were to criticize or interrogate. When my sister and I were babies and he had visitation rights, he would come to my mother's house and sit and read the newspaper. That was his idea of spending time with his children. He smoked in the car and scolded me for being "inconsiderate" when I tried to wave the smoke away from me. Apparently I was being "insensitive" by making him feel bad for forcing me to breathe his second-hand smoke, which made me extremely nauseated, and severe nausea is one of the worst experiences there are. I don't say this to elicit sympathy or to excuse myself. He made up for it all by leaving me and my sister and my step-mother's kids a bucket of money. But, no, I never had positive experiences with him.
Daniel
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Online Tassie Dave

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2017, 03:44:30 PM »
Football is not just a matter of life and death: it's much more important than that.

The women's AFLW season begins February 2nd and I'm ready, got my online season pass in an email just yesterday. And for the 2018 AFL season, unlike the Bulldogs, I expect the Tigers will be a threat to the competition once again and for years to come. See you there. Aussie Rules, greatest team sport on planet earth.

Have you heard of the new AFLX competition on February 15, 16 & 17

http://www.afl.com.au/aflx

It looks like it could be an exciting experiment. I think the idea is to have a game that can be adapted easily for exhibition games on foreign, smaller sized sporting grounds.

Guys, can we stop with the "I feel sorry/sad for you" bullshit?
Its very patronising and insulting.

I didn't mean it to be patronising or insulting. I sincerely apologise if that was the way it came across.

Of course everyone has different passions. Some that I don't get and I wish I did. My life is no less, because I don't share those passions.

My statement was hyperbole. I don't literally feel sorry for anyone who doesn't have a passion for sport.

Offline 2397

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2017, 04:24:16 PM »
I have no strong feelings one way or the other.

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2017, 05:46:28 PM »
I don’t care a whit about sport, but I care about human relationships, and I do genuinely feel sorry at learning that anyone has never had a relationship that could imbue an activity or event with special meaning.  I was really not prepared for Daniel’s response, and it made me genuinely sad because it suggests a degree of loneliness and disconnect that I had never imagined.  I can’t help feeling that sadness, and won’t apologize for expressing it.  I’m sorry, though, Daniel, if you felt condescended to; that was not my intent, though perhaps I should have had the foresight to anticipate the possibility.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2017, 05:51:40 PM »
I’m curious, Daniel; have you ever had the experience of finding a place or object meaningful because of its history or other association rather than because of its inherent properties?  Like the desk at which your favorite book was written or the house where one of your heroes grew up? Would you find the pen with which Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation more valuable or awe-inspiring than an identical pen without its history? Etc.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2017, 08:37:20 PM »
I don’t care a whit about sport, but I care about human relationships, and I do genuinely feel sorry at learning that anyone has never had a relationship that could imbue an activity or event with special meaning.  I was really not prepared for Daniel’s response, and it made me genuinely sad because it suggests a degree of loneliness and disconnect that I had never imagined.  I can’t help feeling that sadness, and won’t apologize for expressing it.  I’m sorry, though, Daniel, if you felt condescended to; that was not my intent, though perhaps I should have had the foresight to anticipate the possibility.

I said above that I do not feel the slightest bit offended or patronized, and I will add that I do not feel condescended to, when people express their feelings or opinions about my life. My life has indeed been lonely. The only times in my adult life that I have not been alone were the 15 years that I had a cat, and the six months I spent in prison. I attribute this to my lack of social skills. And I still think I've been fortunate, as I've had mostly good health, I've never been homeless, though I couch-surfed briefly between apartments, and when I've gone hungry it's been by my own choice.

I’m curious, Daniel; have you ever had the experience of finding a place or object meaningful because of its history or other association rather than because of its inherent properties?  Like the desk at which your favorite book was written or the house where one of your heroes grew up? Would you find the pen with which Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation more valuable or awe-inspiring than an identical pen without its history? Etc.

No, I've never been interested in historical or personal associations. The house my favorite author or painter grew up in has no interest for me. Abe Lincoln's pen would not interest me. Diego Rivera's house interested me only because it's now a museum with his and Frida Kahlo's paintings. I collect art because I enjoy looking at art. And I'd really rather have a book I can read than one that's been signed by someone special which must be kept safe and untouched because of it. (Though I mostly only read e-books now because my eyes have a hard time with paper.)

History can be fascinating. But the artifacts of history are only interesting to me insofar as they can elucidate history, and since I am not trained in the field I'll leave them to people who can draw information from them. I learned from looking at Google Earth that the house I lived in in rural North Dakota is gone, either burned down or torn down, and as much as I enjoyed my life there, I felt nothing upon realizing the house was no longer there.

Things for me have value for what they can be used for or their intrinsic beauty as art, and places interest me for their intrinsic properties, not for their associations. And, as will not surprise you, I've never understood the fascination for places based on their associations. The house where Dostoyevsky grew up, or the one he lived in when he wrote The Idiot. There are people I admire enormously. Hilary Hahn or Katja Sager to name just two. But if their childhood homes were opened to the public and I was walking along the street, I probably would not bother going in, though I'd travel across the country to meet them in person.

Hilary Hahn:


Katja Sager. If you find the praeludium lugubrious, the fugue starts at about 3:30:
Daniel
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“You say you love your children above all else, and yet you are stealing their future in front of their very eyes.”
-- Greta Thunberg