Author Topic: Episode #649  (Read 4445 times)

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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2017, 10:36:47 PM »
That was my suspicion, Daniel.  You must understand that many people—probably a majority—cannot possibly understand your perspective on this any more than you can understand ours.  And the same goes for associations of events with people and relationships.  I understand how your mind works only intellectually; it’s something I accept but not something I can possibly relate to or imagine.

In my work as a teacher I have many students who lie at various places on what’s now called the Autism Spectrum. Part of what We work to teach these students to do is understand at least intellectually the minds of others that don’t work like theirs.  We try to teach them that even if they don’t value certain social niceties or understand the importance of things like relationships and the association of memories with people and places, they need to live in a world where many people do value these things. We’re not trying to change them, but to help them learn to navigate social interactions with their minds even when the don’t understand them intuitively.

If I may offer a suggestion: when people are talking about experiences with loved ones or about cherished possessions, assume that what they are talking about is not the football game or the movie or the baseball card or the pen (though it may seem to you that it is), but about their father or their mother or their brother whom they experienced it with or who gave it to them.  And understand that any words you use to dismiss the experience will not be perceived as a dismissal of the activity or of the value of the intrinsic value of the object in the abstract, but as an attack on the value of their relationship with their loved one or even an attack on their loved one himself.  You may not understand it, and it is surely not rational; but it is the truth, and your social relationships will go a little more smoothly if you can remember it.

It’s not easy.  You’ll note that, despite my understanding intellectually the differences in the way our two minds work, I could not prevent myself feeling personally attacked when you seemed to be attacking Jay’s memory of his father.  Your words dismissing his cherished memory seemed to me an attack equally upon my most cherished memories.  Imagine how much more it would affect someone whose memories you seemed directly to be attacking.

Anyway, I wish to apologize again for some of my harsh words. I understand intellectually that you did not intend the offense, and I will get over it.  I want you to know that I respect your opinion in many things, and I’d like to consider you a friend as much as one can have such an anonymous friendship online. But there’s is no doubt that I will someday become impatient with you again.  Please be patient with me when that happens.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 10:39:23 PM by The Latinist »
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Online Harry Black

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2017, 05:52:43 AM »
Interestingly, I really relate to Daniels indifference to artifacts or historical places.

Online daniel1948

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2017, 08:45:42 AM »
That was my suspicion, Daniel.  <...snip...>

Thanks. I'll try to keep those things in mind.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
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Offline godbomb

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2017, 03:19:48 AM »
regarding group perception and this topic of not noticing when someone behind a counter for example suddenly changes appearance and people do not notice... how much of that is just general reluctance by people to engage with strangers even when they notice something odd?  I think there are plenty of people who notice but say nothing because they don't know what kind of nonsense is at play.  Or they notice something, but have enough self-doubt to not say anything.

Offline MTBox

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2018, 06:06:39 PM »
regarding group perception and this topic of not noticing when someone behind a counter for example suddenly changes appearance and people do not notice... how much of that is just general reluctance by people to engage with strangers even when they notice something odd?  I think there are plenty of people who notice but say nothing because they don't know what kind of nonsense is at play.  Or they notice something, but have enough self-doubt to not say anything.

There is nothing like seeing this for yourself. Look on the web for "Gorilla in the Midst."

One of the main investigators of this study (Sorry, I can't recall his name right now) brought his presentation to a national (US) Motorcycle Safety Conference that I attended. He showed a lot of the films, including the one with the gorilla, the one where the counter clerk ducks below "to get something" and up comes a different person; and one where a building appears in the background of a panoramic landscape while he is speaking to us. There is even an update of the gorilla video, because so many people now think they can out-think it; the update is to prove they still are not noticing what else happens.

Offline godbomb

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Re: Episode #649
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2018, 07:40:20 PM »
I've seen it before.  The Gorilla video tests the viewer directly.  I don't think it's exactly the same as the counter example where you are in on the gag.  You can't just show people not reacting, you have to also ask them why they didn't react. 
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 07:42:23 PM by godbomb »