Author Topic: Episode #651  (Read 4648 times)

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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2018, 05:26:12 PM »
Funny, one of the reasons I say I don't like musicals is that they blend the fantastic with the realistic so poorly.  For the most part they're set in realistic universes but then out of nowhere they bust into song, can't stand it.  That's probably just rationalization for my dismissal of an entire genre of film.

If I understand Daniel correctly, his complaint is really that fantasy gets labeled as sci fi.   I can get behind that except I do think he has an overly restrictive definition of sci fi.  Given that some folks think I have an overly restrictive definition of sci fi, I can empathize. 

*Star Wars is definitely not sci fi, star trek probably isn't sci fi, Vulcans are basically space elves.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 05:28:48 PM by Ah.hell »

Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2018, 05:26:26 PM »
I'm sure it's similar for anyone watching a movie that takes place in their field of expertise having to endure everything they get wrong, but it's also pretty humorous for a screenwriter to have to listen to people bagging on storytelling in movies over their take on how "science" should be portrayed...  :laugh:

My recommendation is to try it yourself. If it's imminently doable and writers are just too stupid to figure it out, and people love it you'll make millions and prove us all wrong. Otherwise it'll be a great humbling lesson in how difficult it is to tell a story that's visually entertaining and factually correct.  ;D

I won't be holding my breath BTW
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Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2018, 05:27:08 PM »
Funny, one of the reasons I say I don't like musicals is that they blend the fantastic with the realistic so poorly.  For the most part they're set in realistic universes but then out of nowhere they bust into song, can't stand it.  That's probably just rationalization for my dismissal of an entire genre of film.
I hate musicals too, until I see a good one, then it goes into the "exception to the rule" folder.  :laugh:
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Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2018, 05:30:41 PM »
Also, did I miss an update to the dictionary where they redefine the word fiction? I understand the urge to call Star Wars fantasy, but it seems to me that the word fiction is pretty well defined as to be untrue in its nature. Maybe it would be more palatable to the pedants if it were called Technological/Futurist Fantasy than Science Fiction?
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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2018, 05:32:23 PM »
Funny, one of the reasons I say I don't like musicals is that they blend the fantastic with the realistic so poorly.  For the most part they're set in realistic universes but then out of nowhere they bust into song, can't stand it.  That's probably just rationalization for my dismissal of an entire genre of film.
I hate musicals too, until I see a good one, then it goes into the "exception to the rule" folder.  :laugh:
Paint Your Wagon isn't a musical, its a western with singing.

Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2018, 06:53:03 PM »
Funny, one of the reasons I say I don't like musicals is that they blend the fantastic with the realistic so poorly.  For the most part they're set in realistic universes but then out of nowhere they bust into song, can't stand it.  That's probably just rationalization for my dismissal of an entire genre of film.
I hate musicals too, until I see a good one, then it goes into the "exception to the rule" folder.  :laugh:
Paint Your Wagon isn't a musical, its a western with singing.
Precisely!  :laugh:
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Offline 2397

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2018, 07:02:38 PM »
Also, did I miss an update to the dictionary where they redefine the word fiction? I understand the urge to call Star Wars fantasy, but it seems to me that the word fiction is pretty well defined as to be untrue in its nature. Maybe it would be more palatable to the pedants if it were called Technological/Futurist Fantasy than Science Fiction?

It's set in the past.

Online Tassie Dave

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2018, 07:30:21 PM »
Also, did I miss an update to the dictionary where they redefine the word fiction? I understand the urge to call Star Wars fantasy, but it seems to me that the word fiction is pretty well defined as to be untrue in its nature. Maybe it would be more palatable to the pedants if it were called Technological/Futurist Fantasy than Science Fiction?

It's set in the past.

I had someone on another Forum say we can't quibble about Star Wars physics as it isn't in our Universe and doesn't have to obey our Laws of Physics.

Except, as I pointed out to him, that Lucas firmly established it as being in our timeline and Universe in the very first frame of the very first movie.

"A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...."


We already have a word that combines sci-fi, science fantasy and Fantasy genres. It's called Speculative Fiction
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculative_fiction

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2018, 02:43:21 AM »
On the occasions there is discussion of a science or technology news item outside the area of expertise of the panel (which will be often), I'd appreciate a follow up discussion with a subject matter expert guest. e,g, a guest physicist/chemist/other SME every couple of months who can dissect and explain the item better than the panel is capable of.

That is anything to do with biology.
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Online daniel1948

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2018, 10:38:07 AM »
I don't care for most musicals, but there are notable exceptions. I like Chicago enough that I bought the DVD. I also love the utterly ridiculous weirdness of Bollywood where they not only break out in song at random moments, but with highly choreographed coordinated dancing. Completely unrealistic. OTOH, I could not stand Frozen, which my two favorite hiking guides (sisters) loved so much that for two summers running they called themselves and each other by the names of characters from that movie, and they named their new dog ofter the reindeer from the movie. A lot of it probably has to do with the music itself. An awful lot of what passes for music just is not pleasing to my ears.

I'm happy with the label "musical" for such movies.

Also, did I miss an update to the dictionary where they redefine the word fiction? I understand the urge to call Star Wars fantasy, but it seems to me that the word fiction is pretty well defined as to be untrue in its nature. Maybe it would be more palatable to the pedants if it were called Technological/Futurist Fantasy than Science Fiction?

I call it "space fantasy," since it almost always involves space travel and space aliens. The other category, that involves time travel here on Earth (e.g. the Terminator franchise), I don't have a good descriptor for, other than general fantasy. Or time-travel fantasy, but that almost seems too restrictive a label. A lot of it is dystopian, so I put it on the dystopian fantasy shelf.

Straight fiction includes most of literature before the space age. Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Dickens, Melville, pretty much all the classic authors wrote fiction. Made-up characters in made-up situations that could just as easily have been real. Anna Karenina could have been a real person, as could have been Tom Sawyer. Straight fiction often involves characters who would have been remarkable, but not more so than the "forgotten super-heroes of science." Gulliver's Travels was fantasy, but Don Quixote could have been a real person. A schizophrenic, but real. (A side note: Quixote was a fictional character, but the books listed by name that he read, that drove him over the edge of sanity, were actual books, and I have read several of them in the original. Spanish has not changed as much as English has during the same period, and if you read modern Spanish, you can read 16th century Spanish with only a very little getting used to some different spelling. Those books are indeed absolutely dreadful: Idiotic stories poorly told with no literary value. Which was why Cervantes hated them so much. They were the popular trashy books of their day, and well deserving of Cervantes' ridicule.)
Daniel
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Online The Latinist

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2018, 11:50:46 AM »
Daniel, this is you being both too literal and too black-and-white in your thinking.  Get over it.
I would like to propose...that...it is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatever for supposing it true. — Bertrand Russell

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2018, 12:08:46 PM »
Daniel, this is you being both too literal and too black-and-white in your thinking.  Get over it.
I kind of agree and kind of disagree.  He has a point, its just one that few care much about.  As I mentioned, I do get somewhat annoyed at fantasy labelled as Sci Fi, I just have a slightly more flexible definition of Sci Fi.

Online daniel1948

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2018, 12:40:50 PM »
Daniel, this is you being both too literal and too black-and-white in your thinking.  Get over it.

"Too black-and-white" and "too literal" are judgement calls. I respect your opinion on this, but I don't share it. Like people saying "Me and Greg visited Idaho," or "George was talking to my brother and I," I will not likely ever get over it. I'm an old man and set in my ways. Fortunately for the world, I'm approaching the end of my time.
Daniel
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Offline RMoore

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2018, 01:11:21 PM »
Podcast change suggestion: Themes

I would love to see each episode constructed around a shared narrative. Maybe not every week but once a month tackle a subject in depth ie one week it's climate change another week alternative medicine. Where every news item on that theme, perhaps a guest on that topic as well as the SOF theme.

This would give a chance to really focus in on some of the concerns and make the show more memorable. It would give the opportunity to really drill down on a topic (much like John Oliver does on his show).

I second this suggestion! (In fact, I was going to suggest something similar but in my mind I was calling it "in-depth exploration" rather than "themes".)

Offline RMoore

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Re: Episode #651
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2018, 01:31:23 PM »
The DSCOVR satellite takes several uniformly lit, whole earth pictures every day. DISCOVER is at the Lagrange 1 location where the gravity of the sun and earth balance. It's ideal for measuring planetary albedo.

https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov

These have obviously been faked. Look at the swirls! Van Gogh any one? When will you oblate spheroid-earthers wake up?

Besides, that's obviously a picture of a disk.