Author Topic: Type II Diabetes  (Read 7651 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11971
Type II Diabetes
« on: January 19, 2018, 12:30:21 PM »
Type II Diabetes was relatively rare until recently. Now it's reached epidemic proportions.

U.S. Diabetes Surveillance System

(Note, it's important to make the distinction between Type I and Type II. They are completely different conditions and have very little in common)

In my own family, my oldest sister reversed her TIID with bariatric surgery.

Another sister is on daily insulin injections with hers.

A sister-in-law has T2D that went unchecked for years and has numerous complications, including amputations, and is in a wheelchair. She had bariatric surgery and that helped but she did not go into full remission.

I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic 8 years ago, and have successfully avoided the disease.

Type II Diabetes is a progressive disease, and the current standard of care, using medication, exercise and moderate diet modification, only slow its progression.

There are only two treatments that have been found to lead to remission in a significant number of patients:

A low-carb ketogenic diet and bariatric surgery.

So here's some information to consider.

Pubmed advanced search for: (Type II diabetes) AND ketogenic diet 

(If you suspect I'm "cherry picking," do these searches yourself. I'd be happy to read any contradicted studies you find)

Twelve-month outcomes of a randomized trial of a moderate-carbohydrate versus very low-carbohydrate diet in overweight adults with type 2 diabetes ... - PubMed - NCBI
Quote
In a 12-month trial, adults with elevated HbA1c and body weight assigned to an LCK diet had greater reductions in HbA1c, lost more weight, and reduced more medications than those instructed to follow an MCCR diet.

Induced and controlled dietary ketosis as a regulator of obesity and metabolic syndrome pathologies. - PubMed - NCBI
Quote
The results demonstrated that the change over time from week 0 to week 10 was significant (p=0.001) in the ketogenic group for weight, body fat percentage, BMI, HgA1c and ketones. All variables for the ketogenic group out-performed those of the exercise and non-exercise groups, with five of the seven demonstrating statistical significance.



An Online Intervention Comparing a Very Low-Carbohydrate Ketogenic Diet and Lifestyle Recommendations Versus a Plate Method Diet in Overweight Individuals With Type 2 Diabetes: A Randomized Controlled Trial
Quote
Individuals with type 2 diabetes improved their glycemic control and lost more weight after being randomized to a very low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet and lifestyle online program rather than a conventional, low-fat diabetes diet online program. Thus, the online delivery of these very low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet and lifestyle recommendations may allow them to have a wider reach in the successful self-management of type 2 diabetes.


Short-term safety, tolerability and efficacy of a very low-calorie-ketogenic diet interventional weight loss program versus hypocaloric diet in patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus
Quote
The interventional weight loss program based on a VLCK diet is most effective in reducing body weight and improvement of glycemic control than a standard hypocaloric diet with safety and good tolerance for T2DM patients.


Low carbohydrate and ketogenic diets in type 2 diabetes : Current Opinion in Lipidology



Very low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet before bariatric surgery: prospective evaluation of a sequential diet. - PubMed - NCBI
Quote
OPOD, including 10 days of a VLCKD, was safe and effective in morbidly obese patients, and it seems to be promising in morbidly obese patients with and without T2DM scheduled for laparoscopic bariatric surgery.

Effect of low-calorie versus low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet in type 2 diabetes. - PubMed - NCBI
Quote
This study shows the beneficial effects of a ketogenic diet over the conventional LCD in obese diabetic subjects. The ketogenic diet appears to improve glycemic control. Therefore, diabetic patients on a ketogenic diet should be under strict medical supervision because the LCKD can significantly lower blood glucose levels.


Pubmed advance search for (Type II diabetes) AND bariatric surgery


Metabolic surgery for the treatment of type 2 diabetes in obese individuals. - PubMed - NCBI
Quote
Several bariatric operations originally designed to promote weight loss have been found to powerfully treat type 2 diabetes, causing remission in most cases, through diverse mechanisms additional to the secondary consequences of weight loss.

Three-year result of efficacy for type 2 diabetes mellitus control between laparoscopic duodenojejunal bypass compared with laparoscopic Roux-en-Y ... - PubMed - NCBI


Effect of bariatric surgery on diabetic nephropathy in obese type 2 diabetes patients in a retrospective 2-year study: A local pilot. - PubMed - NCBI
Quote
This study shows that bariatric surgery significantly improves diabetic nephropathy in obese type 2 diabetes mellitus subjects. The results suggest that in our local type 2 diabetes mellitus patients, it is possible not only to improve metabolic parameters, but also to reverse what may be considered established microvascular complications by means of bariatric surgery.

 

Recent advances in understanding/managing type 2 diabetes mellitus
 

Long-Term Outcomes of Three Types of Bariatric Surgery on Obesity and Type 2 Diabetes Control and Remission. - PubMed - NCBI
Quote
For all three surgeries, diabetes remission was higher than the baseline after 5 years; mean BMI and HbA1c decreased considerably during the first year postoperatively and remained lower than basal values throughout follow-up. Early improvements were greatest for RYGB, though the advantage over the other operations diminished with time.

Predictors of remission of diabetes mellitus in severely obese individuals undergoing bariatric surgery: do BMI or procedure choice matter? A meta-... - PubMed - NCBI
Quote
Bariatric surgery determines similar diabetes remission rates in patients with BMI of 35 kg/m2 or more or BMI of less than 35 kg/m2. Baseline BMI is unrelated to diabetes remission. The association of baseline waist circumference with glycated hemoglobin A1c reduction is likely due to selection bias. Bariatric or metabolic effects of the surgical procedures appear independent, and different indices are needed to predict them.

This thread is open to everyone and anyone. Any intelligent, thoughtful discussion relevant to the topic is welcome.

and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline Noisy Rhysling

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4896
    • Hyperwar, WWII in Hypertext.
Re: Type II Diabetes
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2018, 12:33:48 PM »
I've had Type II since 1998. Never took any meds, my blood sugar never gets over 150. No ill effects. My doctors are puzzled.
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Online CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11971
Re: Type II Diabetes
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2018, 01:17:53 PM »
I've had Type II since 1998. Never took any meds, my blood sugar never gets over 150. No ill effects. My doctors are puzzled.

Interesting. Have they tested HA1c? (That's a more reliable diagnosis than FBS)
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline Noisy Rhysling

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4896
    • Hyperwar, WWII in Hypertext.
Re: Type II Diabetes
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2018, 02:28:07 PM »
I've had Type II since 1998. Never took any meds, my blood sugar never gets over 150. No ill effects. My doctors are puzzled.

Interesting. Have they tested HA1c? (That's a more reliable diagnosis than FBS)
About once a year somebody wants to "run a series of tests" on me. I let 'em.
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Online CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11971
Re: Type II Diabetes
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2018, 02:42:25 PM »
I've had Type II since 1998. Never took any meds, my blood sugar never gets over 150. No ill effects. My doctors are puzzled.

Interesting. Have they tested HA1c? (That's a more reliable diagnosis than FBS)
About once a year somebody wants to "run a series of tests" on me. I let 'em.

I'm just wondering what the result would have been. Do you know if they ran an insulin sensitivity test? (you would have had to drink something yucky, then a blood test a couple hours later)
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline Noisy Rhysling

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4896
    • Hyperwar, WWII in Hypertext.
Re: Type II Diabetes
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2018, 05:19:06 PM »
I've had Type II since 1998. Never took any meds, my blood sugar never gets over 150. No ill effects. My doctors are puzzled.

Interesting. Have they tested HA1c? (That's a more reliable diagnosis than FBS)
About once a year somebody wants to "run a series of tests" on me. I let 'em.

I'm just wondering what the result would have been. Do you know if they ran an insulin sensitivity test? (you would have had to drink something yucky, then a blood test a couple hours later)
I think I've done that one. Of course I'm 66.6 years old, so I've done everything at one point or another. Some doc from SLU wanted me to test every hour for 24 hours. "No, and fuck no."
"Sunday's horoscope is note worthy because of its strange, sudden and wholly unpredictable and inexplicable occurrences, affecting all phases of life." Your Horoscope" L.A. Evening Herald Express, Sat, 12/06/41

Offline Billzbub

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4343
  • I know you know I know
Re: Type II Diabetes
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2018, 04:47:01 PM »
I've had Type II since 1998. Never took any meds, my blood sugar never gets over 150. No ill effects. My doctors are puzzled.

Interesting. Have they tested HA1c? (That's a more reliable diagnosis than FBS)
About once a year somebody wants to "run a series of tests" on me. I let 'em.

I'm just wondering what the result would have been. Do you know if they ran an insulin sensitivity test? (you would have had to drink something yucky, then a blood test a couple hours later)
I think I've done that one. Of course I'm 66.6 years old, so I've done everything at one point or another. Some doc from SLU wanted me to test every hour for 24 hours. "No, and fuck no."

I wish I could lend you my Dexcom continuous glucose sensor for 3 days.
Quote from: Steven Novella
gleefully altering one’s beliefs to accommodate new information should be a badge of honor

Offline Friendly Angel

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4510
  • Post count reset to zero in both forum apocalypses
Re: Type II Diabetes
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2018, 04:41:42 PM »
I just recently started getting web ads from a local chiropractor who has some kind of diabetes prevention program he's selling.

Also on his site:  "stop using dryer sheets immediately!"  "the amazing benefits of turmeric" and "reasons to avoid GMO at all costs"
Just surprised, I haven't seen chiropractors go after this market before.


I'm going to stick to the more conventional prevention plan.  And there's no way I'm doing LCHF.
Amend and resubmit.

Online CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11971
Re: Type II Diabetes
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2018, 05:15:07 PM »
I'm going to stick to the more conventional prevention plan.  And there's no way I'm doing LCHF.

If you don't mind me asking:

What's the plan?

How is it working out for you?

Why not LCHF?
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline PANTS!

  • One leg at a time.
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 12000
  • What seals? I auditioned for this job.
Re: Type II Diabetes
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2018, 05:22:40 PM »
I just recently started getting web ads from a local chiropractor who has some kind of diabetes prevention program he's selling.

Also on his site:  "stop using dryer sheets immediately!"  "the amazing benefits of turmeric" and "reasons to avoid GMO at all costs"
Just surprised, I haven't seen chiropractors go after this market before.


I'm going to stick to the more conventional prevention plan.  And there's no way I'm doing LCHF.


He's fucking right about the tumeric.  It got my kids to eat chicken, and compliment me on it.  That is a gob-smacking benefit.
Now where I come from
We don't let society tell us how it's supposed to be
-Uptown, Prince 👉

The world is on its elbows and knees
It's forgotten the message and worships the creeds

Offline PANTS!

  • One leg at a time.
  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 12000
  • What seals? I auditioned for this job.
Re: Type II Diabetes
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2018, 05:23:27 PM »
I'm going to stick to the more conventional prevention plan.  And there's no way I'm doing LCHF.

If you don't mind me asking:

What's the plan?

How is it working out for you?

Why not LCHF?

Because Diabetus is actually caused by consumer expectations, and fiat currency.
Now where I come from
We don't let society tell us how it's supposed to be
-Uptown, Prince 👉

The world is on its elbows and knees
It's forgotten the message and worships the creeds

Offline Friendly Angel

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4510
  • Post count reset to zero in both forum apocalypses
Re: Type II Diabetes
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2018, 05:38:43 PM »

If you don't mind me asking:

What's the plan?

How is it working out for you?

Why not LCHF?

The plan is CDC T2 Prevention lifestyle changes.
I signed up with a web support group health plan through my insurance company - only for a week so far out of a year.  Includes counselling with a nutritionist.
I am just barely Pre-D  with A1C=5.8 a year and a half ago. Just now getting serious.
I'm vegetarian, wife is vegan - I know LCHF could still be done, it won't happen.

I don't have a high genetic component, and I am pretty active outside of my desk job... and I'm overweight but not obese, so I think if I just get my BMI down I will avoid this disease. 
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 05:46:30 PM by Friendly Angel »
Amend and resubmit.

Online CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11971
Re: Type II Diabetes
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2018, 06:51:02 PM »

If you don't mind me asking:

What's the plan?

How is it working out for you?

Why not LCHF?

The plan is CDC T2 Prevention lifestyle changes.

Hmmm...

Quote
I signed up with a web support group health plan through my insurance company - only for a week so far out of a year.  Includes counselling with a nutritionist.

Nutritionist or dietician? (I'd qualify as a nutritionist; dieticians are different)

Quote
I am just barely Pre-D  with A1C=5.8 a year and a half ago. Just now getting serious.

Yes, that's Pre. IIRC anything above 5 or 5.5 is pre-D depending on who you ask.

Quote
I'm vegetarian, wife is vegan - I know LCHF could still be done, it won't happen.

Does that mean you mean you can't have bacon?  ???

Quote
I don't have a high genetic component, and I am pretty active outside of my desk job... and I'm overweight but not obese, so I think if I just get my BMI down I will avoid this disease.


Genetic component is vastly overstated, IMO. It's basically a disease of insulin resistance.

There is a correlation between obesity and TIID, but there's no evidence that one causes the other.

There are plenty of TIIDs with normal BMIs and plenty of Obese people without TIID.

II think it's likely they're both caused by the same thing: Insulin resistance.

and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline Friendly Angel

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4510
  • Post count reset to zero in both forum apocalypses
Re: Type II Diabetes
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2018, 07:08:37 PM »


1.  Nutritionist or dietician? (I'd qualify as a nutritionist; dieticians are different)

2.  Yes, that's Pre. IIRC anything above 5 or 5.5 is pre-D depending on who you ask.

3.  Does that mean you mean you can't have bacon?  ???

4.  There is a correlation between obesity and TIID, but there's no evidence that one causes the other.

5.  There are plenty of TIIDs with normal BMIs



1.  NDTR   Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics

2.  5.6 is good  6.4 is diabetic  all the charts I've seen say the same.

3.  Bacon holds no appeal for me.

4.  Pre-D's that lose weight are far less likely to go Full-D.

5.  Yeah, small fraction. 
Amend and resubmit.

Online CarbShark

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 11971
Re: Type II Diabetes
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2018, 11:55:29 AM »

1.  NDTR   Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics

2.  5.6 is good  6.4 is diabetic  all the charts I've seen say the same.

4.  Pre-D's that lose weight are far less likely to go Full-D.

5.  Yeah, small fraction.


1. So basically care supervised by a dietician.

2. 5.6 to 6.4 is at risk or pre-diabetes. 6.5 is TIID

Screening and Monitoring of Prediabetes | outpatient.aace.com

4 & 5

The point is that it may not be the weight issue that causes TIID. There is a correlation, but if both the excess weight and TIID are caused by the same thing (say, too much sugar and highly refined grains, for the sake of argument) then almost any weight loss plan will reduce those.

Plus, 15% is not what I'd call a small fraction. It's significant enough to rule out overweight/obesity as a requirement for diagnosis.

Diabetes can strike—hard—even when weight is normal - Harvard Health Blog - Harvard Health Publishing
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

 

personate-rain