Author Topic: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?  (Read 2334 times)

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Offline God Bomb

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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2018, 03:36:07 AM »
its OK to fly in planes if you have important skeptical work to do like attending a wedding.

Honestly though when faced with questions like this before the rogues always seem to fall back on "we'll solve the problem with technology later"
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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2018, 06:30:38 AM »
its OK to fly in planes if you have important skeptical work to do like attending a wedding.

Honestly though when faced with questions like this before the rogues always seem to fall back on "we'll solve the problem with technology later"

Can you give an example of the Rogues advising people not to use planes in order to combat climate change, or even just based on ethical concerns?

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2018, 11:11:57 AM »
The problem exists at the societal level.  I don't think there's hypocrisy here unless the problem/solution existed entirely at the individual scale. 
If global warming is real then how come I just felt this chill down my spine?

Offline PANTS!

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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2018, 11:46:04 AM »
its OK to fly in planes if you have important skeptical work to do like attending a wedding.

Honestly though when faced with questions like this before the rogues always seem to fall back on "we'll solve the problem with technology later"

Again, what the Rogues (or any science educator)  think or do is an oddly convienient distraction from the point.  What does pointing out their alleged hypocracy do to help solve climate change?  If it does next to nothing  to help (hint:  it does next to nothing to help) and does more to harm climate change or even continue the status quo, (hint: this is also true) then the person who brings it up either has an agenda, or they are a useful idiot that is easily distracted  by propoganda and rhetoric from actual problem solving.

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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2018, 01:00:38 PM »
The problem exists at the societal level.  I don't think there's hypocrisy here unless the problem/solution existed entirely at the individual scale. 

So wait... flying in airplanes makes one a hypocrite if they believe in climate change?

I'm not buying that.
I think it depends on the solution being advocated.  If the response being advocated forces everyone to give up something that the advocate won't give up voluntarily, there is hypocrisy.  Even advocating policy that will raise the cost of living for the poor while not materially effecting your own is a bit hypocritical.  Like say a carbon tax which would tend to be regressive. 

Offline JohnM

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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2018, 01:40:58 PM »
The problem exists at the societal level.  I don't think there's hypocrisy here unless the problem/solution existed entirely at the individual scale.

By that do you mean it's not possible, perhaps due to the lack of infrastructure, to live a reasonably carbon neutral life?

If every individual changed their attitude to their carbon footprint overnight then the problem would go away, right?

I am pretty torn about driving around with global warming being such a major problem. I hope electric cars can do much to mitigate the problem is the future.

I think that and the factory made meat are to two big hopes for stopping the worst case scenarios for climate change.

Though I feel it will probably end up being like 50% less fat biscuits: we'll just end up eating twice as much.


Offline PANTS!

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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2018, 02:25:04 PM »
I think it depends on the solution being advocated.  If the response being advocated forces everyone to give up something that the advocate won't give up voluntarily, there is hypocrisy.  Even advocating policy that will raise the cost of living for the poor while not materially effecting your own is a bit hypocritical.  Like say a carbon tax which would tend to be regressive.
Why is that hypocritical?  Are addicts hypocritical when they go to rehab or AA?  Are people on a diet hypocritical when they tell other people in the hopes that they will get external enforcement?  Are people who advocate for higher taxes hypocritical if they take all the deductions they can?  There are many people who require external motivation.  There are also many solutions that can not be solved

And even if they are - so what?  IT STILL DOESN'T MEAN THAT CLIMATE CHANGE DOES NOT EXIST.  Or that these people changing their habits would fix anything.  Or that deniers will suddenly change their tone if Al Gore swore off planes. 

When I read arguments like the one that OP posted, I used to think, "who can't see through that bullshit non-sequitur?".  Come to find out that it just is not that clear.

The problem exists at the societal level.  I don't think there's hypocrisy here unless the problem/solution existed entirely at the individual scale.

By that do you mean it's not possible, perhaps due to the lack of infrastructure, to live a reasonably carbon neutral life?

If every individual changed their attitude to their carbon footprint overnight then the problem would go away, right?

No - and this statement is woefully misinformed.  It's not like many people have not already said so many time in this thread.  So now I begin to question your motives here.

But here is a breakdown if you need it said again:

https://whatsyourimpact.org/greenhouse-gases/carbon-dioxide-emissions

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-huertas/dear-humans-industry-is-c_b_7017470.html

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/nov/20/90-companies-man-made-global-warming-emissions-climate-change
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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2018, 02:28:08 PM »
The addict that won't try rehab on his own but lobbies for a law that forces all addicts to go to rehab is hypocritical. 

See my earlier post, hypocrisy is just part of the human condition try not to be one and if you are, it doesn't make your arguments wrong it just means you are a hypocrite. 

Offline God Bomb

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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2018, 08:15:04 PM »
its OK to fly in planes if you have important skeptical work to do like attending a wedding.

Honestly though when faced with questions like this before the rogues always seem to fall back on "we'll solve the problem with technology later"

Can you give an example of the Rogues advising people not to use planes in order to combat climate change, or even just based on ethical concerns?

No and why should I need to?  They often highlight the reality and dangers of anthropogenic climate change.  Commercial flights are a major contributer.  More than one of them takes unnecessary flights.  Connect the dots.
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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2018, 08:44:14 PM »
its OK to fly in planes if you have important skeptical work to do like attending a wedding.

Honestly though when faced with questions like this before the rogues always seem to fall back on "we'll solve the problem with technology later"

Can you give an example of the Rogues advising people not to use planes in order to combat climate change, or even just based on ethical concerns?

No and why should I need to?  They often highlight the reality and dangers of anthropogenic climate change.  Commercial flights are a major contributer.  More than one of them takes unnecessary flights.  Connect the dots.

Unless they believe that people should not take unnecessary flights and/or tell others not to take unnecessary flights, that's not a hypocritical position they are in.  You seem to be assuming their positions on the matter are a certain way and then are judging them for not living up to those positions.  If your assumption is incorrect, then your conclusion is as well.  That's not to say you can't disagree with their decisions and based on your own opinions judge them as irresponsible, but that is a far cry from them being hypocrites.

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2018, 09:36:53 PM »
I think it depends on the solution being advocated.  If the response being advocated forces everyone to give up something that the advocate won't give up voluntarily, there is hypocrisy.

I should flip my answer around.

Hypocrisy hinges on purporting to have values which you don't. 

There'd only be hypocrisy if solving climate change were a matter of sticking to your values.

I think we're far removed from the problem being that small so I don't see hypocrisy as having any real lead-ins here. 

And I'm not sure I'd consider double-standards to be hypocritical since usually people just want something done and don't want to be assed to deal with whatever that means.
If global warming is real then how come I just felt this chill down my spine?

Offline God Bomb

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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2018, 09:41:27 PM »
its OK to fly in planes if you have important skeptical work to do like attending a wedding.

Honestly though when faced with questions like this before the rogues always seem to fall back on "we'll solve the problem with technology later"

Can you give an example of the Rogues advising people not to use planes in order to combat climate change, or even just based on ethical concerns?

No and why should I need to?  They often highlight the reality and dangers of anthropogenic climate change.  Commercial flights are a major contributer.  More than one of them takes unnecessary flights.  Connect the dots.

Unless they believe that people should not take unnecessary flights and/or tell others not to take unnecessary flights, that's not a hypocritical position they are in.  You seem to be assuming their positions on the matter are a certain way and then are judging them for not living up to those positions.  If your assumption is incorrect, then your conclusion is as well.  That's not to say you can't disagree with their decisions and based on your own opinions judge them as irresponsible, but that is a far cry from them being hypocrites.


I didn't make any assumptions. 
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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2018, 11:25:41 PM »
its OK to fly in planes if you have important skeptical work to do like attending a wedding.

Honestly though when faced with questions like this before the rogues always seem to fall back on "we'll solve the problem with technology later"

Can you give an example of the Rogues advising people not to use planes in order to combat climate change, or even just based on ethical concerns?

No and why should I need to?  They often highlight the reality and dangers of anthropogenic climate change.  Commercial flights are a major contributer.  More than one of them takes unnecessary flights.  Connect the dots.

Unless they believe that people should not take unnecessary flights and/or tell others not to take unnecessary flights, that's not a hypocritical position they are in.  You seem to be assuming their positions on the matter are a certain way and then are judging them for not living up to those positions.  If your assumption is incorrect, then your conclusion is as well.  That's not to say you can't disagree with their decisions and based on your own opinions judge them as irresponsible, but that is a far cry from them being hypocrites.


I didn't make any assumptions.

Then why shouldn't you have to provide examples of the Rogues saying things that contradicts their use of airplanes?

Offline God Bomb

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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2018, 12:54:58 AM »
I never quoted them as saying the things you're asking me to provide examples of.  So it's strange that you keep asking that.  Nothing I've said in this topic is an assumption.  If there are is anything you interpret as an assumptions please highlight it specifically.

Quote
They (the rogues) often highlight the reality and dangers of anthropogenic climate change.  Commercial flights are a major contributor.  More than one of them takes unnecessary flights.  Connect the dots.

Is there an assumption here?  DO I really have to source these points?  I thought by now they are all generally accepted.

Quote
You seem to be assuming

This is an example of an assumption.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 01:21:28 AM by God Bomb »
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Re: Are skeptics / scientists hypocrites on climate change?
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2018, 03:03:02 AM »
I never quoted them as saying the things you're asking me to provide examples of.  So it's strange that you keep asking that.  Nothing I've said in this topic is an assumption.  If there are is anything you interpret as an assumptions please highlight it specifically.

Quote
They (the rogues) often highlight the reality and dangers of anthropogenic climate change.  Commercial flights are a major contributor.  More than one of them takes unnecessary flights.  Connect the dots.

Is there an assumption here?  DO I really have to source these points?  I thought by now they are all generally accepted.

Maybe I've been assuming something then; are you indeed accusing them of hypocrisy?  If so, then what I said two posts ago still stands.  You are confusing what your views on climate change are with theirs.  If they don't believe that change on an individual level makes a difference then they are not acting hypocritically.  Just because you have a problem with the fact that do things you think they should not, given their position, is another matter entirely from whether they are hypocrites because they would not be advising that anyone do something that they themselves are not willing to do.


Quote
You seem to be assuming

This is an example of an assumption.

It really isn't at all.  It an observation made with the qualification that I don't know for sure if what I believe I'm observing agrees with what you'd say you were doing.  Thus the phrase "seem to be."
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 03:05:07 AM by Eternally Learning »