Author Topic: Episode #660  (Read 8019 times)

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Offline Belgarath

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Episode #660
« on: March 04, 2018, 10:39:35 PM »
Forgotten Superheroes of Science: Margaret Oakley Dayhoff; News Items: Low-Fat vs Low-Carb, Moa Genome, Superatomic Semiconductors, Who’s That Noisy; Your Questions and E-mails: Meatleg Lives, Conspiracy Theorists; Science or Fiction


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Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #660
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2018, 11:14:54 PM »
Grains belong to the family Poaceae.  Quinoa is not a grain,btw.
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #660
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2018, 02:05:55 AM »
I was pleased the word ‘apotheosis’ was used.  And it was pronounced correctly (at least to my ear, which doesn’t mean much).  ‘Apotheosis’ is the way I remember that the highest (or furthest) point of a body’s orbit around the Earth is the ‘apogee.’

Regarding weight and diet.  I weigh myself daily, at much the same time each day.  My weight can vary by as much as 0.5 kg from day to day, mainly accounted by variations in hydration.  I use body composition scales, and my body weight seems to follow body water weight fairly closely.  And anyway, if body weight goes up 0.5 kg one day, I’m hardly likely to ascribe it to an increase of 0.5 kg in body fat or muscle mass (and it usually drops 0.5 kg the next day).

If I weighed myself weekly (as recommended) I would find it impossible to decide whether a 0.5 kg increase was real.  Or just reflected day-to-day variation.
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Offline stlc8tr

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Re: Episode #660
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2018, 02:10:08 AM »
"Jog for 3 hours" to have a 500-calorie deficit?

That must be some slow jogging. Even if you jogged at 5 MPH, I would expect a caloric deficit of somewhere in the 300-400 range per hour.

And I'm not a fan of the scale as it doesn't measure body fat (and the impedance-based body fat scales aren't that accurate in my experience). I'd rather use waist size as a proxy for body fat %. I've actually gained weight after I started working out but my waist size has decreased so I'm happy with the results.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 02:19:38 AM by stlc8tr »

Offline 2397

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Re: Episode #660
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2018, 05:29:28 AM »
According to a treadmill and a bike computer, I can lose about 500 calories in 30 minutes during an intense workout. I wonder if Steve meant a 3 hour walk. Of course, the more you weigh, the less viable running is. Maybe his perspective is dealing with more severe cases of overweight.

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Offline werecow

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Re: Episode #660
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2018, 05:57:57 AM »
"Jog for 3 hours" to have a 500-calorie deficit?

That must be some slow jogging. Even if you jogged at 5 MPH, I would expect a caloric deficit of somewhere in the 300-400 range per hour.

Yeah. Let me quote myself from the temporary thread:

Quote
660 is still missing, and I'm really looking forward to the discussion of that one.

Me too. Did Steve really say you need to run for 3 hours to burn 500 kcal a day? Nuh-uh. Running at 10km/h for 60 minutes as a 50kg person will burn roughly that much. So will a little over an hour of 20km/h biking.

I personally find it pretty much impossible to lose significant amounts of weight by dieting alone. I guess that's subjective, but cutting down by 500kcal is a lot when your daily caloric requirement is about 1800 kcal. I lost about 25% of my body weight just by biking alone last year - though in fairness, I have been biking a silly amount.

According to a treadmill and a bike computer, I can lose about 500 calories in 30 minutes during an intense workout. I wonder if Steve meant a 3 hour walk.

Yeah, actually that makes much more sense. According to the two calculators I linked to above, if you walk 3km/h (which is very slow) for someone weighting 60-70kg that would be close to 500 kcal.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 06:03:14 AM by werecow »
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Offline GodSlayer

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Re: Episode #660
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2018, 07:54:51 AM »

"I was doing five or six hours of cardio a week and I was very disappointed with my weight loss"
 - Bob

my new job required that I started doing 7 hours of cardio with weights a day. I dropped to my goal weight in 2 months. (you get even better results on TV's 'The Biggest Loser' because they also resist eating just whatever they feel like instead of doubling their chocolate intake like I did).

I think people just have this delusional sedentary-culture concept of what it means to get exercise. It seems as silly to me as someone saying 'I'm really disappointed I'm not rich, I did a whole day's work this week'.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #660
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2018, 07:55:30 AM »
Thanks, Belgarath, for starting this thread!

Grains belong to the family Poaceae.  Quinoa is not a grain,btw.

But it tastes good. I like quinoa. I also like brown rice and whole-grain bread. Of course I am pleased that Steve supported what I've been saying for a long time about diet: All things in moderation: avoid "low" anything; avoid "high" anything. Back around 1983 I started jogging, and the books I read advised low-fat, so I ate low-fat. I now know that this extreme plan was as unsound as low-carb or high-fat.

I agree with bachfiend on weighing: I can actually fluctuate two pounds from one day to the next, weighed first thing in the morning. On a successful diet I can lose half a pound a week. If I weigh myself just once a week and the days line up just wrong, the scale might tell me I've gained a pound and a half when in fact I've lost half a pound. So I weigh myself every day, then I discard the highest and lowest numbers and average the rest. It's that weekly average I care about. When I'm not actively dieting, I weigh myself daily, and I guesstimate an average by eyeball.

While calories-in/calories-out is the bottom line for fat gain or loss, the importance of exercise for me is not the calories burned during exercise: It's the psychological (and perhaps physiological) effect of daily cardio on my appetite: Paradoxically I'm more hungry and less able to control my eating when I am not exercising. If I do cardio for 30 to 45 minutes 4 or 5 days a week, I'm less hungry in general, and have more self-control to refrain from overeating, than when I'm not exercising. Related to this is that I suffer from depression. Cardio is my anti-depressant.

I don't trust the calorie estimates on my exercise equipment, but there are on-line calculators. Steve's numbers did seem to be low.
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Offline 2397

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Re: Episode #660
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2018, 08:37:54 AM »
Weighing first thing in the morning after having evacuated the body, is probably as consistent as it gets. If you also have a consistent sleep schedule.

I don't trust the calorie estimates on my exercise equipment, but there are on-line calculators. Steve's numbers did seem to be low.

It's all a broad estimate, but I figure it must be at least as reliable as an online form where you just put numbers in, since you can do that with the machines as well.

I use my bike computer for running/hiking, too (it's a good lap/milestone timer), and it's useless for calories then, because that's not what it's calibrated for. Sometimes it can't register that I'm moving.

Offline Skepmic

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Re: Episode #660
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2018, 09:11:48 AM »
Aren't all of the exercise calorie calculators only very rough guesstimates? IIRC you need a heart rate monitor to get reliable numbers. Anyway, the 500 calories for three hours of cardio sounds way too low. Unless Steve meant very slow walking. I struggle to think of another cardio-type activity that you do for 3 hours and only burn 500 calories.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #660
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2018, 09:48:17 AM »
Its almost as though Steve was exaggerating for effect to emphasize the point that for most people, dropping calories from you're diet is easier than increasing exorcise to burn the same number of calories. 


"I was doing five or six hours of cardio a week and I was very disappointed with my weight loss"
 - Bob

my new job required that I started doing 7 hours of cardio with weights a day. I dropped to my goal weight in 2 months. (you get even better results on TV's 'The Biggest Loser' because they also resist eating just whatever they feel like instead of doubling their chocolate intake like I did).

I think people just have this delusional sedentary-culture concept of what it means to get exercise. It seems as silly to me as someone saying 'I'm really disappointed I'm not rich, I did a whole day's work this week'.
It would be more accurate to say that most people have sedentary jobs.  When I was paid to exorcise 7 hours a day, I also lost weight and gained muscle, granted I wasn't paid very much to load trucks but hey, trade offs.  If you are the average citizen of an industrialized nation, you get paid to sit on your ass, and have to fit in what exorcise you time you can elsewhere.  If you are over weight, you probably consume more than 1800cal a day too. 

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #660
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2018, 10:14:06 AM »
I don't trust the calorie estimates on my exercise equipment, but there are on-line calculators. Steve's numbers did seem to be low.

It's all a broad estimate, but I figure it must be at least as reliable as an online form where you just put numbers in, since you can do that with the machines as well.

My machines are older, or maybe just cheaper: I cannot tell the machine my weight or anything else. They just give calorie read-outs, which I ignore, because my primary purpose is cardiovascular fitness. I exercise for as long as I can stand to be on the equipment, and at the maximum level I can maintain for that much time without feeling too exhausted at the end. I want to feel tired, but not nauseated.

In Maui I'm in the kayak for 3 hours, because that's the length of the tours. Next winter I will be using a different guide who will let us stay out until I'm tired out or the wind and water conditions make it inadvisable to stay out. (It's usually calm in the morning, and then the wind picks up, usually around 10:00 a.m. That determines how long you can stay out, and is also why the tours run from 7:00 a.m. (first light) to 10:00 a.m.) If I'm feeling energetic I will spend most of the 3 hours paddling. If I'm tired I'll spend more time sitting in the kayak dangling my feet in the water.

Anyway, I don't worry about how many calories I burn. I just do as much cardio as I can without over-tiring myself or going beyond extremely bored into wanting-to-die bored.
Daniel
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Offline RMoore

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Re: Episode #660
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2018, 11:16:54 AM »
Grains belong to the family Poaceae.  Quinoa is not a grain,btw.

I could not find a source that supports the claim, "Quinoa is not a grain". Can you point me in the right direction?

Offline gebobs

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Re: Episode #660
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2018, 11:31:29 AM »
I was surprised to learn that Captain Crunch is technically not a cereal. Who knew?

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #660
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2018, 12:45:23 PM »
Grains belong to the family Poaceae.  Quinoa is not a grain,btw.

I could not find a source that supports the claim, "Quinoa is not a grain". Can you point me in the right direction?

https://www.bobsredmill.com/blog/featured-articles/is-quinoa-a-grain/
Quote
While quinoa is often prepared like a grain, it’s actually a member of the spinach, chard and beet family. /quote]

Misinformation from the Rogues, that leads me to be sceptical of what shows up on the podcast.

The study they described didn't actually consider the markers of health other than weight loss/gain.  What about drops in HBA1C and triglycerides and the rise in HDL?  And all the other markers that are generally shown to improve in studies that compare high an low macronutrient diets?  In a population that is mostly overweight and obese, I guess being able to see one's feet becomes the primary concern.

https://examine.com/nutrition/low-fat-vs-low-carb-for-weight-loss/
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