Author Topic: Episode #661  (Read 1616 times)

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Offline Steven Novella

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Episode #661
« on: March 10, 2018, 12:32:16 PM »
What's the Word: Heritable vs Inheritable
News Items: Not Too Many Too Soon, Lab Grown Meat, Seeing Around Corners, Opiods No Better
Who's That Noisy
Science or Fiction
Steven Novella
Host, The Skeptics Guide
snovella@theness.com

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #661
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2018, 05:47:47 PM »
I went to Amazon, and I found what the new book is about.  It’s about $17.85 for the non-carbon based data retrieval version.  A bit more for the dead tree version.
Gebt ihr ihr ihr Buch zurück?

Offline Hatchet

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Re: Episode #661
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2018, 09:50:02 PM »
It looks like the rogues have some competition out there for skeptical guide books! I found this via google: https://www.discoverintuition.com/store/p108/A_Skeptics_Guide_to_the_Universe_E-Book_.html

Quote
This book is attuned by Marisa with energies and exercises that assist in healing the reader and attuning them to their higher self.  For anyone who wants to understand spirit in addition to the difference between things like Mediumship, Channeling, and being Psychic is should read this book.  It is a great introductory book but the "old pros" have raved about it as well because of the accuracy in which Marisa sees and explains all the levels or awareness and layers of the field that we call our human aura.  It's absolutely fascinating!

I'm sure it is absolutely fascinating!   ::)

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #661
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 10:21:53 AM »
I'm glad they agreed that opioids are good for post-surgery pain. I was really glad to have that oxycodone and morphine after they repaired my broken arm. I think I would have killed myself to get away from the pain, and there's no way ibuprofen would have done a damn bit of good.

But kicking the addiction was a bitch. Once I no longer needed it for the pain it took me 5 weeks (IIRC) to wean myself off the stuff. I tried going cold turkey, and that was NOT going to happen and I had to do it gradually. Still, it was worth it.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #661
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 11:41:41 AM »
I'm glad they agreed that opioids are good for post-surgery pain. I was really glad to have that oxycodone and morphine after they repaired my broken arm. I think I would have killed myself to get away from the pain, and there's no way ibuprofen would have done a damn bit of good.

But kicking the addiction was a bitch. Once I no longer needed it for the pain it took me 5 weeks (IIRC) to wean myself off the stuff. I tried going cold turkey, and that was NOT going to happen and I had to do it gradually. Still, it was worth it.
I'm fascinated by the difference between your reaction an mine.  I stopped taking the opoids after a day or too, the just made me feel groggy and didn't seem to help the pain much.  I knew a guy at the time that loved the feeling they gave him.  Whatever increase in pain I had, much better than the sensation the pills gave me. I think there must be some kind of genetic thing, any rate, I'm grateful I don't like them.

Offline gebobs

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Re: Episode #661
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2018, 12:02:50 PM »
I went to Amazon, and I found what the new book is about.  It’s about $17.85 for the non-carbon based data retrieval version.  A bit more for the dead tree version.

I ordered the dead tree version. I don't plan on liberating the carbon.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #661
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2018, 12:16:10 PM »
I'm glad they agreed that opioids are good for post-surgery pain. I was really glad to have that oxycodone and morphine after they repaired my broken arm. I think I would have killed myself to get away from the pain, and there's no way ibuprofen would have done a damn bit of good.

But kicking the addiction was a bitch. Once I no longer needed it for the pain it took me 5 weeks (IIRC) to wean myself off the stuff. I tried going cold turkey, and that was NOT going to happen and I had to do it gradually. Still, it was worth it.
I'm fascinated by the difference between your reaction an mine.  I stopped taking the opoids after a day or too, the just made me feel groggy and didn't seem to help the pain much.  I knew a guy at the time that loved the feeling they gave him.  Whatever increase in pain I had, much better than the sensation the pills gave me. I think there must be some kind of genetic thing, any rate, I'm grateful I don't like them.

Yes, the difference in our reactions is interesting. The oxy did not make me feel high or groggy. It did cut the pain way down to a tolerable level. (Never eliminated it completely, because I just took enough to make it tolerable, as I was well aware of the dangers of addiction.) The worst thing was the constipation. But that was much better than the pain. Untreated, the pain was absolute agony.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #661
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2018, 12:46:08 AM »
Morphine is a wonder drug, IMHO, if one's head is being blasted with radiation five days a week for two months.  I was given the option of increasing the dose, ad lib; I certainly did.  It worked particularly well with acetaminophen.  Life was not a blast.

I found it particularly easy to ditch, actually, just about the time the radiologist said I would, about two weeks after the last treatment. 
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline Fast Eddie B

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Re: Episode #661
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2018, 03:19:56 PM »
I found the report on opioids interesting.

My go-to for minor aches and pains is ibuprofen, usually just two. Stiff back, sore shoulder, that sort of thing. But I find their effect pretty subtle.

For real pain, hydrocodone or oxycodone are for me the real deal. Most common use is when a kidney stone is making its way out. The bottle says "1-2 tablets as needed for pain", but its been years since I've taken 2 at once.

The report may lead me to try the ibuprofen first, possibility at a higher dose.

As an aside, a drawback for opioids is, for me, they have a marked stimulative effect. That means at night, while they effectively kill the pain, I can lie awake for hours - which is pretty annoying when I just want to sleep.

Online Swagomatic

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Re: Episode #661
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2018, 03:22:42 PM »
I found the report on opioids interesting.

My go-to for minor aches and pains is ibuprofen, usually just two. Stiff back, sore shoulder, that sort of thing. But I find their effect pretty subtle.

For real pain, hydrocodone or oxycodone are for me the real deal. Most common use is when a kidney stone is making its way out. The bottle says "1-2 tablets as needed for pain", but its been years since I've taken 2 at once.

The report may lead me to try the ibuprofen first, possibility at a higher dose.

As an aside, a drawback for opioids is, for me, they have a marked stimulative effect. That means at night, while they effectively kill the pain, I can lie awake for hours - which is pretty annoying when I just want to sleep.

That's me.  Any opioid makes it very difficult for me to sleep; and what sleep I do get is not very good.
Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.
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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #661
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2018, 05:34:30 PM »
Opiates and opioides let me sleep when pain would otherwise keep me awake. However, my experience is limited. One night in the hospital after a prostate operation. It made me feel warm. And a couple of months after I broke my arm. Those are the only times I've used them. I really liked them and I slept better than I ever have. The prospects of addiction prevent me from using them for anything less than agonizing pain.

One night when I couldn't sleep (brain was racing, don't remember the issue) I thought of taking an oxycodone. That thought lasted all of about three seconds. The next thought was: Addiction. Nope.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline Quetzalcoatl

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Re: Episode #661
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2018, 05:50:04 PM »
Steve found out about the book being possible to pre-order on Reddit? I thought the rogues read these forums at least occasionally. :-\
"I’m a member of no party. I have no ideology. I’m a rationalist. I do what I can in the international struggle between science and reason and the barbarism, superstition and stupidity that’s all around us." - Christopher Hitchens

Offline Mr. Beagle

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Re: Episode #661
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2018, 05:52:12 PM »
Before and after major back surgery (the old invasive kind) a long time ago, hydrocodone was a sanity saver. It did mess with sleep and I would like awake immobile for hours but mentally I did not care.

I have used it since after some significant dental surgery, but I found it less effective for that, plus it really binds up your colon. I find it interesting to see ads pushing a new drug to ease opioid-induced constipation.

A good friend opted for opioid pallitive care over aggressive chemo after being diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. He was lucid and posting online up to two days before his death. Similar to my experience, he would write that he knew he was in great pain, but somehow he didn't care. He is my role model for a good death.
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Re: Episode #661
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2018, 06:27:46 PM »
Before and after major back surgery (the old invasive kind) a long time ago, hydrocodone was a sanity saver. It did mess with sleep and I would like awake immobile for hours but mentally I did not care.

 Similar to my experience, he would write that he knew he was in great pain, but somehow he didn't care.

I was concerned with addiction too - I was glad that I received no recreational benefit from the Norco when I've had broken bones... I just felt stupid.  Doctor told me it's more of a problem with people dealing with chronic pain than trauma... but still, I quit as soon as I could.
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #661
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2018, 06:46:39 PM »
I found the report on opioids interesting.

My go-to for minor aches and pains is ibuprofen, usually just two. Stiff back, sore shoulder, that sort of thing. But I find their effect pretty subtle.

For real pain, hydrocodone or oxycodone are for me the real deal. Most common use is when a kidney stone is making its way out. The bottle says "1-2 tablets as needed for pain", but its been years since I've taken 2 at once.

The report may lead me to try the ibuprofen first, possibility at a higher dose.

As an aside, a drawback for opioids is, for me, they have a marked stimulative effect. That means at night, while they effectively kill the pain, I can lie awake for hours - which is pretty annoying when I just want to sleep.

There’s not a single opioid receptor in the brain.  Horses apparently have more of the mu-receptor, activation of which by opioids causes stimulation before analgesia.  Perhaps there’s a natural variation within humans in regard to the relative proportion of the four main opioid receptors, and in some individuals there’s more of the mu-receptors, so that they get proportionately more stimulation?
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