Author Topic: Opening Arguments #TTTBE  (Read 42571 times)

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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #510 on: July 11, 2019, 05:55:56 pm »
After I answered I looked it up.  It seems some jurisdictions have done away with equitable conversion (NY) or otherwise shifted the liability (MA). I hope there was something in the contract we signed with our offer that put the risk of loss on the seller until closing.  I should dig out that paperwork the check.

That's how I always thought it was supposed to go. The day of the closing is the day you take possession  of the house/property.

There is a difference between taking possession and being the equitable owner in common law.  In the common law, once under a contract that requires the delivery of title, you are the owner of the property and the seller now has not a real interest in the property, but a personal one in the fulfillment of the contract. At that point (barring statutory or contract provisions to the contrary), the risks of loss is yours.

That's kind of what happens at a closing. That is when you sign the papers for the loan and transfer the deed of sale. Before that it is just an agreement of sale. Am I right on that?
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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #511 on: July 11, 2019, 06:09:25 pm »
After I answered I looked it up.  It seems some jurisdictions have done away with equitable conversion (NY) or otherwise shifted the liability (MA). I hope there was something in the contract we signed with our offer that put the risk of loss on the seller until closing.  I should dig out that paperwork the check.

That's how I always thought it was supposed to go. The day of the closing is the day you take possession  of the house/property.

There is a difference between taking possession and being the equitable owner in common law.  In the common law, once under a contract that requires the delivery of title, you are the owner of the property and the seller now has not a real interest in the property, but a personal one in the fulfillment of the contract. At that point (barring statutory or contract provisions to the contrary), the risks of loss is yours.

That's kind of what happens at a closing. That is when you sign the papers for the loan and transfer the deed of sale. Before that it is just an agreement of sale. Am I right on that?

It’s a contract.  You’ve already traded something if value (the deposit) for the obligation of the seller to deliver the property at closing, and under the common law it makes you the equitable owner of the property even if you don’t yet have it in your possession.  If someone damages the property, you are the injured party, not the seller.  And if the property is damaged by a natural disaster or fire, you’ve assumed the risk.  Again, under common law and in the absence of contractual terms (as was the case in this question).
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Offline Swagomatic

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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #512 on: July 11, 2019, 06:16:10 pm »
After I answered I looked it up.  It seems some jurisdictions have done away with equitable conversion (NY) or otherwise shifted the liability (MA). I hope there was something in the contract we signed with our offer that put the risk of loss on the seller until closing.  I should dig out that paperwork the check.

That's how I always thought it was supposed to go. The day of the closing is the day you take possession  of the house/property.

There is a difference between taking possession and being the equitable owner in common law.  In the common law, once under a contract that requires the delivery of title, you are the owner of the property and the seller now has not a real interest in the property, but a personal one in the fulfillment of the contract. At that point (barring statutory or contract provisions to the contrary), the risks of loss is yours.

That's kind of what happens at a closing. That is when you sign the papers for the loan and transfer the deed of sale. Before that it is just an agreement of sale. Am I right on that?

It’s a contract.  You’ve already traded something if value (the deposit) for the obligation of the seller to deliver the property at closing, and under the common law it makes you the equitable owner of the property even if you don’t yet have it in your possession.  If someone damages the property, you are the injured party, not the seller.  And if the property is damaged by a natural disaster or fire, you’ve assumed the risk.  Again, under common law and in the absence of contractual terms (as was the case in this question).

Every house I've purchased, I think we always had insurance lined up before signing the papers. I suspect that the mortgage company would not leave something like that to chance in any case.
Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.
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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #513 on: July 11, 2019, 06:27:20 pm »
After I answered I looked it up.  It seems some jurisdictions have done away with equitable conversion (NY) or otherwise shifted the liability (MA). I hope there was something in the contract we signed with our offer that put the risk of loss on the seller until closing.  I should dig out that paperwork the check.

That's how I always thought it was supposed to go. The day of the closing is the day you take possession  of the house/property.

There is a difference between taking possession and being the equitable owner in common law.  In the common law, once under a contract that requires the delivery of title, you are the owner of the property and the seller now has not a real interest in the property, but a personal one in the fulfillment of the contract. At that point (barring statutory or contract provisions to the contrary), the risks of loss is yours.

That's kind of what happens at a closing. That is when you sign the papers for the loan and transfer the deed of sale. Before that it is just an agreement of sale. Am I right on that?

It’s a contract.  You’ve already traded something if value (the deposit) for the obligation of the seller to deliver the property at closing, and under the common law it makes you the equitable owner of the property even if you don’t yet have it in your possession.  If someone damages the property, you are the injured party, not the seller.  And if the property is damaged by a natural disaster or fire, you’ve assumed the risk.  Again, under common law and in the absence of contractual terms (as was the case in this question).

Every house I've purchased, I think we always had insurance lined up before signing the papers. I suspect that the mortgage company would not leave something like that to chance in any case.

You had insurance before closing? Between the time your offer was accepted and the time you closed?
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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #514 on: July 11, 2019, 06:34:36 pm »
Just pulled out the sales agreement from when we purchased our condominium in 2008 (the house papers are stored elsewhere).  Section 12 reads as follows:

Quote
12. RISK OF LOSS:
The seller will assume all risk of loss or damage to the property by fire or other cause until after the transfer of title.

That clause is in there to address this very issue.
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Offline Swagomatic

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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #515 on: July 11, 2019, 06:53:49 pm »
After I answered I looked it up.  It seems some jurisdictions have done away with equitable conversion (NY) or otherwise shifted the liability (MA). I hope there was something in the contract we signed with our offer that put the risk of loss on the seller until closing.  I should dig out that paperwork the check.

That's how I always thought it was supposed to go. The day of the closing is the day you take possession  of the house/property.

There is a difference between taking possession and being the equitable owner in common law.  In the common law, once under a contract that requires the delivery of title, you are the owner of the property and the seller now has not a real interest in the property, but a personal one in the fulfillment of the contract. At that point (barring statutory or contract provisions to the contrary), the risks of loss is yours.

That's kind of what happens at a closing. That is when you sign the papers for the loan and transfer the deed of sale. Before that it is just an agreement of sale. Am I right on that?

It’s a contract.  You’ve already traded something if value (the deposit) for the obligation of the seller to deliver the property at closing, and under the common law it makes you the equitable owner of the property even if you don’t yet have it in your possession.  If someone damages the property, you are the injured party, not the seller.  And if the property is damaged by a natural disaster or fire, you’ve assumed the risk.  Again, under common law and in the absence of contractual terms (as was the case in this question).

Every house I've purchased, I think we always had insurance lined up before signing the papers. I suspect that the mortgage company would not leave something like that to chance in any case.

You had insurance before closing? Between the time your offer was accepted and the time you closed?

I guess I couldn't say for sure, but I would assume that that the title company and the mortgage companies would make sure the property is covered.  I guess I've never bought any property that didn't already have a mortgage on it, so I can't make any statements about that, but I can't imagine that a mortgage company would leave something like that hanging.
Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.
---George Bernard Shaw

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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #516 on: July 14, 2019, 11:05:39 am »
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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #517 on: July 14, 2019, 11:13:07 am »
So I really hope I can get this one correct. I have been on a slump for awhile now.

Spoiler
I am going with A. If I remember correctly robbery is by force and larceny is just theft. Since the person threatened the owner with harm I would think this qualifies for robbery. If the person just walked away when confronted then it would have been Larceny. Of course I could be wrong because there is a charge of armed robbery, but I think you have to have a weapon for that to occur. 
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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #518 on: July 14, 2019, 11:49:34 am »
I guess A
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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #519 on: July 14, 2019, 08:18:43 pm »




Spoiler
A. Robbery. Until he threatened her and intimidated her it was larceny.
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... and Donald Trump is president of the United States

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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #520 on: July 15, 2019, 12:15:30 am »
Spoiler
I’m actually going to say B, larceny, because the threat wasn’t made when he took the item.
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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #521 on: July 16, 2019, 05:52:44 pm »
Answer to #134

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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #522 on: July 16, 2019, 07:11:57 pm »
Woo!
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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #523 on: July 16, 2019, 08:51:25 pm »
... and Donald Trump is president of the United States

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Re: Opening Arguments #TTTBE
« Reply #524 on: July 17, 2019, 11:10:26 am »
Woo!

I forgot to put in my answer again, but I was on Team Thomas.  :laugh:
Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.
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