Author Topic: Episode #662  (Read 8740 times)

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Offline albator

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2018, 08:06:09 AM »
Before his death, he was on a ventilator full time. So I'm pretty sure helping him to die would have been view as an 'end of life care' refusal and not an asisted suicide, and, thus, would have been legal pretty much anywhere.
Also, he lived ALS for 50 years, making the probability he died of natural death anydays extremely high, so the probability that his death is a suicide is low.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2018, 09:47:10 AM »
You are wrong to state that this claim cannot be falsified. This is completely different from a god hypothesis, invisible dragon in the garage argument. The fact that a statement cannot be falsified is something that, by definition, would not change its status given new events ( otherwise it would have been classified as falsifiable in the first place).

Some member of the family could acknowledge the fact. An autopsy could reveal chemicals in the blood, etc...

You are confusing "is not falsifiable by the general public" with "is not scientifically falsifiable".
Family confession or autopsy would support, not falsify.

Suppose the family denied it or an autopsy reported natural causes? Those wouldn’t falsify the hypothesis 

What evidence would convince you it didn’t happen?


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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2018, 10:06:22 AM »
Cara "There's not that many people in Australian Central Standard Time"
I wouldn't call almost 2 million people "Not that many"  ???

Its relative, she lives in a city of 4 million and 12 million if you include the burbs.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2018, 10:42:07 AM »
Hawking did not commit suicide. A person who cannot move anything other than twitch his cheek is incapable of committing suicide. Igor: You are advocating the proposal that he requested to be killed, not that he killed himself. There is a difference between assisted suicide and asking to be killed or removed from life support.

There's also a big difference between administering a lethal drug that kills the person painlessly, and turning off ventilation to a conscious person, who will then suffer several minutes of suffocation before losing consciousness. The latter might be legally regarded as "removing artificial life support" and legal if the patient requests it. The former would be the humane method but might not be legal under British law. A particularly zealous and vicious prosecutor could even claim that the family did it without Hawkings' request.

You are asking for an investigation that could possibly result in Hawkings' family being prosecuted for murder. Leave it alone. It's of no importance, and is nobody's business but the family's. Let them mourn their loved one in peace. His life and his courage are what matter, not the manner of his death.
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Offline Igor SMC

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2018, 11:26:37 AM »
Daniel, I agree. Thanks for pointing out the difference between Suicide and Assisted-Suicide.

So, to put this issue to rest: Since he was very sick and under life support, Hawkins perfectly fits the profile of people that would be in the reasonable position to ask for such a thing. If Hawkins was to choose to die, it is reasonable to assume he could pick a relevant date. Choosing to die in Einsteins birthday (and matching his age at Death) would have been his final joke, and his last tribute to the man whose works laid the foundations of his 56-years long career. No other scientist in the whole world would come even close of being this important to him and his research. This act would be a final touch of brilliance in his life...

And just like the cases of David Bowie and Otto Warmbier, even if it makes perfect sense the hypothesis of Assisted Suicide (Or Euthanasia), I agree that it is the family business and we should go no further... We should respect their right to privacy.

I watched The Theory of Everything yesterday and it really was a different experience.... The moment he used to computer to say "Can you hear me?" gave me the chills... because I've heard him saying that once... Live. It was in Stockholm in 2015... And then I remembered his awesome lecture about black holes...

He Truly was an amazing and inspiring person... He will be forever missed.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 06:33:37 PM by Igor SMC »
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Offline mwestley

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2018, 11:41:43 AM »
Closer to home, the island of Newfoundland is also a half-hour time zone.

Offline Friendly Angel

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2018, 12:56:03 PM »
Hawking did not commit suicide. A person who cannot move anything other than twitch his cheek is incapable of committing suicide.

I saw a documentary (Frontline?) about an American ALS sufferer who went to Switzerland for assisted suicide - he had to do it before he lost complete muscular control because the rule was he had to "push the button" himself.

So the "facilitator" hooked him up to the euthanasia kit, and then gave him a thing to bite on to initiate the final sequence.  It was touching and dignified.

The stigma and legalities surrounding euthanasia are just barbaric.  As far as Hawking goes - Daniel's right, it doesn't matter unless there was a suspected murder.
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Offline Igor SMC

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2018, 01:49:58 PM »
You guys are right.

Thinking about that is not a matter of critical thinking... It is a moral issue. It doesn't matter if he died naturally or if he chose to die that day. Finding evidence for that wouldn't bring any positive outcome, only potential unnecessary stress for the family. My intention was to figure out "his last joke", not to bring potential emotional harm to those close to him.

I am sorry.
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Offline MTBox

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2018, 03:00:15 PM »
I recall while being in Australia, being told that the half-hour timezone accounted for the Distances between the population centers. We went to Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra and Alice Springs. Alice Springs is far from the other cities, so no politically based relative timezone really matters. The time zones were first an allocation of how to  keep train schedules as you crossed open territory to get into each town on a schedule that could be standardized.

Florida proposing to stay on Daylight Savings time year round is effectively Florida changing to the Atlantic time zone without observing DST at all = same as Puerto Rico.

The US has lots of time zone breaks that are politically based, such as Jackpot, NV; the upper half of ID; etc. We talk about it a lot, because we are in the Mountain time zone and right on the western edge of Pacific Time, which means across our State (which is rather large) sunrise and sunset are at widely different times at each border.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2018, 03:35:33 PM »
I recall while being in Australia, being told that the half-hour timezone accounted for the Distances between the population centers. We went to Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra and Alice Springs. Alice Springs is far from the other cities, so no politically based relative timezone really matters. The time zones were first an allocation of how to  keep train schedules as you crossed open territory to get into each town on a schedule that could be standardized.

Florida proposing to stay on Daylight Savings time year round is effectively Florida changing to the Atlantic time zone without observing DST at all = same as Puerto Rico.

The US has lots of time zone breaks that are politically based, such as Jackpot, NV; the upper half of ID; etc. We talk about it a lot, because we are in the Mountain time zone and right on the western edge of Pacific Time, which means across our State (which is rather large) sunrise and sunset are at widely different times at each border.

When I was a kid the town I grew up in had a different time zone than the rest of the state.
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Offline Alex Simmons

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2018, 03:54:54 PM »
I recall while being in Australia, being told that the half-hour timezone accounted for the Distances between the population centers. We went to Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra and Alice Springs. Alice Springs is far from the other cities, so no politically based relative timezone really matters. The time zones were first an allocation of how to  keep train schedules as you crossed open territory to get into each town on a schedule that could be standardized.

Florida proposing to stay on Daylight Savings time year round is effectively Florida changing to the Atlantic time zone without observing DST at all = same as Puerto Rico.

The US has lots of time zone breaks that are politically based, such as Jackpot, NV; the upper half of ID; etc. We talk about it a lot, because we are in the Mountain time zone and right on the western edge of Pacific Time, which means across our State (which is rather large) sunrise and sunset are at widely different times at each border.

Eucla in Western Australia is on its own time zone which is even more unusual being +0845.

Yup, a quarter hour zone. Covers about 200 people.

Adelaide/South Australia and Northern Territory are on same time zone in non-Daylight Savings months. Considering Adelaide and Darwin are about 5 degrees either side of a main longitudinal line of 135 degrees (and Alice Springs is in between, i.e. close to 135 degrees longitude), their half hour makes little sense and it really should just be +0900. One hour = 15 degrees of longitude (135/15 = 9).

Australia also has another time zone for Lord Howe Island, which is +10:30, and they only move forward half an hour to +11:00 for Daylight Saving.

In Summer we have 6 time zones.

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2018, 06:56:09 PM »
I recall while being in Australia, being told that the half-hour timezone accounted for the Distances between the population centers. We went to Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra and Alice Springs. Alice Springs is far from the other cities, so no politically based relative timezone really matters. The time zones were first an allocation of how to  keep train schedules as you crossed open territory to get into each town on a schedule that could be standardized.

Florida proposing to stay on Daylight Savings time year round is effectively Florida changing to the Atlantic time zone without observing DST at all = same as Puerto Rico.

The US has lots of time zone breaks that are politically based, such as Jackpot, NV; the upper half of ID; etc. We talk about it a lot, because we are in the Mountain time zone and right on the western edge of Pacific Time, which means across our State (which is rather large) sunrise and sunset are at widely different times at each border.

Eucla in Western Australia is on its own time zone which is even more unusual being +0845.

Yup, a quarter hour zone. Covers about 200 people.

Adelaide/South Australia and Northern Territory are on same time zone in non-Daylight Savings months. Considering Adelaide and Darwin are about 5 degrees either side of a main longitudinal line of 135 degrees (and Alice Springs is in between, i.e. close to 135 degrees longitude), their half hour makes little sense and it really should just be +0900. One hour = 15 degrees of longitude (135/15 = 9).

Australia also has another time zone for Lord Howe Island, which is +10:30, and they only move forward half an hour to +11:00 for Daylight Saving.

In Summer we have 6 time zones.

I hadn’t known that Eucla is on a different zone, despite having passed through and stopped there twice on a bus on my way to and from Melbourne.  The bus driver just told his passengers that we were stopping there for a comfort stop and had to be back on the bus and ready to go in a certain number of minutes, without referring to ‘local time’ or telling us how many minutes to set our watches forwards or back.

It’s actually not an official time zone.  It’s just locally observed.  It’s just a return to the pre-1830 practice of local time, taking the time from the most prominent clock in the town, before the advent of railways made it necessary to have synchronised times in cities such as London and Oxford to allow timetables.

Eucla isn’t even a one horse town.  It’s only there because it’s a convenient stop in the middle of bugger-all.  And because it’s on the West Australian side of the border.  It’s supposed to be possible to see the Great Australian Bight from Eucla, but I can’t remember seeing it.  We did turn off the highway a short distance into South Australia to admire it - which is just kilometres and kilometres of nothing with not a whale in sight.
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Offline Mr. Beagle

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2018, 07:02:17 PM »
It doesn't need investigating. Either way it's the family's business.

I second that. Mrs. Beagle & I formalized our cremation arrangements today, spurred on by some messy family deaths and one well-planned one. We have a common view on this topic and don't want descendent Beagles messing it up.
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2018, 09:35:49 PM »
I recall while being in Australia, being told that the half-hour timezone accounted for the Distances between the population centers. We went to Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra and Alice Springs. Alice Springs is far from the other cities, so no politically based relative timezone really matters. The time zones were first an allocation of how to  keep train schedules as you crossed open territory to get into each town on a schedule that could be standardized.

Florida proposing to stay on Daylight Savings time year round is effectively Florida changing to the Atlantic time zone without observing DST at all = same as Puerto Rico.

The US has lots of time zone breaks that are politically based, such as Jackpot, NV; the upper half of ID; etc. We talk about it a lot, because we are in the Mountain time zone and right on the western edge of Pacific Time, which means across our State (which is rather large) sunrise and sunset are at widely different times at each border.

Eucla in Western Australia is on its own time zone which is even more unusual being +0845.

Yup, a quarter hour zone. Covers about 200 people.

Adelaide/South Australia and Northern Territory are on same time zone in non-Daylight Savings months. Considering Adelaide and Darwin are about 5 degrees either side of a main longitudinal line of 135 degrees (and Alice Springs is in between, i.e. close to 135 degrees longitude), their half hour makes little sense and it really should just be +0900. One hour = 15 degrees of longitude (135/15 = 9).

Australia also has another time zone for Lord Howe Island, which is +10:30, and they only move forward half an hour to +11:00 for Daylight Saving.

In Summer we have 6 time zones.

I hadn’t known that Eucla is on a different zone, despite having passed through and stopped there twice on a bus on my way to and from Melbourne.  The bus driver just told his passengers that we were stopping there for a comfort stop and had to be back on the bus and ready to go in a certain number of minutes, without referring to ‘local time’ or telling us how many minutes to set our watches forwards or back.

It’s actually not an official time zone.  It’s just locally observed.  It’s just a return to the pre-1830 practice of local time, taking the time from the most prominent clock in the town, before the advent of railways made it necessary to have synchronised times in cities such as London and Oxford to allow timetables.

Eucla isn’t even a one horse town.  It’s only there because it’s a convenient stop in the middle of bugger-all.  And because it’s on the West Australian side of the border.  It’s supposed to be possible to see the Great Australian Bight from Eucla, but I can’t remember seeing it.  We did turn off the highway a short distance into South Australia to admire it - which is just kilometres and kilometres of nothing with not a whale in sight.

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Offline Alex Simmons

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Re: Episode #662
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2018, 11:23:56 PM »
I recall while being in Australia, being told that the half-hour timezone accounted for the Distances between the population centers. We went to Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney, Canberra and Alice Springs. Alice Springs is far from the other cities, so no politically based relative timezone really matters. The time zones were first an allocation of how to  keep train schedules as you crossed open territory to get into each town on a schedule that could be standardized.

Florida proposing to stay on Daylight Savings time year round is effectively Florida changing to the Atlantic time zone without observing DST at all = same as Puerto Rico.

The US has lots of time zone breaks that are politically based, such as Jackpot, NV; the upper half of ID; etc. We talk about it a lot, because we are in the Mountain time zone and right on the western edge of Pacific Time, which means across our State (which is rather large) sunrise and sunset are at widely different times at each border.

Eucla in Western Australia is on its own time zone which is even more unusual being +0845.

Yup, a quarter hour zone. Covers about 200 people.

Adelaide/South Australia and Northern Territory are on same time zone in non-Daylight Savings months. Considering Adelaide and Darwin are about 5 degrees either side of a main longitudinal line of 135 degrees (and Alice Springs is in between, i.e. close to 135 degrees longitude), their half hour makes little sense and it really should just be +0900. One hour = 15 degrees of longitude (135/15 = 9).

Australia also has another time zone for Lord Howe Island, which is +10:30, and they only move forward half an hour to +11:00 for Daylight Saving.

In Summer we have 6 time zones.

I hadn’t known that Eucla is on a different zone, despite having passed through and stopped there twice on a bus on my way to and from Melbourne.  The bus driver just told his passengers that we were stopping there for a comfort stop and had to be back on the bus and ready to go in a certain number of minutes, without referring to ‘local time’ or telling us how many minutes to set our watches forwards or back.

It’s actually not an official time zone.  It’s just locally observed.  It’s just a return to the pre-1830 practice of local time, taking the time from the most prominent clock in the town, before the advent of railways made it necessary to have synchronised times in cities such as London and Oxford to allow timetables.

Eucla isn’t even a one horse town.  It’s only there because it’s a convenient stop in the middle of bugger-all.  And because it’s on the West Australian side of the border.  It’s supposed to be possible to see the Great Australian Bight from Eucla, but I can’t remember seeing it.  We did turn off the highway a short distance into South Australia to admire it - which is just kilometres and kilometres of nothing with not a whale in sight.
Well In places the time zones are ridiculous. e.g. when you fly west from Darwin to Kununurra (a 1-hr flight), you arrive half an hour before you left. And when there in December the sunlight begins before 4am. And it's only 15.8 degrees south of the equator. Being on WA time is just nuts.

In Eucla it's a similar thing. So I can understand the desire to push the clock forward a bit.

 

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