Author Topic: Episode #663  (Read 10512 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline albator

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 161
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2018, 08:24:53 AM »
I would've thought cheese would be worse than milk, in terms of energy consumption/pollutants, since that requires further processing.

Poultry benefits from more inhumane conditions.

It's fair enough to take up the issue of per capita consumption, but don't ignore the issue of the number of capita. So far haven't heard birth control mentioned at all.

Or air travel.

Edit: According to this, cheese is basically why dairy is bad. Milk by itself is like tofu.

Quote
There are several reasons for the relatively large carbon footprint of cheese. First, one kilogram of cheese requires up to 10 kilograms of milk due to the maturing process that cheese usually undergoes.

Though those numbers aren't the same numbers/weighting Steve was talking about. Milk is a lot less calorie dense than cheese. The exact ratio depending on the types of milk and cheese.

There are a lot more issues they didn't talked about, wanna list them all?

Like you said, you need between 5L and 10L of milk for 1kg of cheese because cow milk is nearly 90% water. So, I don't find your chart really insightfull.
From what I found, cheese produce between about 10%  (for thing like yogurt) and up to about 30%(for aged cheese) moreCO_2 per calorie.
And I would guess goat cheese does way better than cow milk in terms of CO_2 emission per calorie.

I don't know if it is happening to everybody, or just on my computer. I visited the SGU front page several times, but it was still showing the episode from last week. I had to press Ctrl+F5 to force a full refresh in order for it to show todays episode. It is the third week that I have to do this.... Is this happening to anyone else?

I'm using Chrome on Windows 10.

On the main page, I get:
Quote
cache-control: max-age=15552000, must-revalidate
Which means if your browser has a cached version younger than 180 days old, it won't check if it has been modified since.
So, it's 'normal'.




« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 08:29:03 AM by albator »

Offline 2397

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2780
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2018, 11:12:08 AM »
There are a lot more issues they didn't talked about, wanna list them all?

As I've said before, I wouldn't mind if there was some kind of complete list of all common human activities and various types of consumption, with things like emissions per unit.

I picked up on it because they specifically talked about per capita consumption, and swapping things out, etc. Each child you create is another source of consumption and emissions. I think that's worth mentioning, especially when talking about population statistics.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 11:32:50 AM by 2397 »

Offline lonely moa

  • A rather tough old bird.
  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 4958
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2018, 01:22:17 PM »
Actually, NZ is a great study of how dairy farming (with cattle) has made a serious mess of both the economy and the environment; animal welfare issues with dairy farming are not really a negative issue IMO.
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline 2397

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2780
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2018, 01:43:49 PM »
Can't really stack cows in any case, though.

Offline gebobs

  • Seasoned Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 571
  • Me like hockey!
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2018, 02:55:05 PM »
Did I hear Evan call extrasensory perception ESPN? LOL

Offline Armel P

  • Brand New
  • Posts: 4
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2018, 01:42:03 PM »
I haven't been able to get this episode on the premium feed through Overcast. Is anyone else experiencing that? Did something change?

Offline Zerowantuthri

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 148
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2018, 03:37:50 PM »
He spoke of the need to have standards for who gets invited to speak on a college campus. That's well and good, but in a number of reported cases, the university had a policy allowing student groups to invite speakers of their choice, and then reneged based on either who the student group chose, or what threats came from those opposed to the views of the intended speaker. Or both. When this is a public university doing it, it's especially ... wait for it ... problematic.  ;)

When talking about free speech one thing needs to be noted up front:

- "Free speech" as a right (from the constitution) ONLY applies to the government restricting your speech.  This includes public universities since they are run by the government.

So Harvard (or whoever) not letting someone speak is not denying anyone of their right to free speech.

Same as the SGU not letting people post anything they want on these forums.  No "free speech" here either.  Only what the rogues deem appropriate.  Same as your living room.  It is entirely up to you to decide who can stand and speak there.

When it comes to a university deciding who to allow to speak they have a very difficult balance to strike.  It is not difficult to imagine some groups that are just too toxic to allow.  What if NAMBLA (North American Man/Boy Love Association) that advocates pederasty was invited to speak by some group at a university.  Should the university allow it?  If so why?  What if some men on campus who were raped when they were kids strenuously object to them being on campus?  Should the university listen to their students or tell those men to just deal with it?

As a result it is best if the university has bright lines drawn on how they decide who can or cannot speak at their campus.  Even then it can still be tricky (probably more so for a public university).

I am all for a university having a broad spectrum of speakers and for hard to hear or unpopular ideas being allowed.  Still, it is not hard to see how this can be a difficult issue to deal with.

Offline Zerowantuthri

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 148
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2018, 03:45:46 PM »
Next step: Acknowledging the unimaginable cruelty and barbarity of slaughtering billions (?) of animals that feel and suffer as much as we do, even if they lack the intellectual capacity to understand why we are so utterly heartless.

New Zealanders might raise their animals humanely, but in the U.S. most farm animals are raised in the most dreadful and miserable of conditions. And independent of their living conditions, killing them as soon as they've reached "optimal" growth is just unconscionable, unless you take the position that they have no feelings and do not suffer (it's patently obvious that they do) or that a magic man in the sky is the ultimate arbiter of right and wrong and has decreed that it's permissible for us to kill and eat them because he made them for that purpose.

A carnivores a problem for you?  If a lion kills a baby gazelle is that bad?  Should we work to stop that from happening?

What about omnivores like a bear?

I mean, if killing an animal is a "bad thing" then we should do something to stop all the carnivores in the animal kingdom right?  I'm pretty sure most animals dying by a predator suffer.

Also, I went to college in Iowa and knew many kids who grew up on farms and they'd laugh at all the vegetarians eating vegetables to save animals.  They said a field after the harvesters ran through was something like Armageddon.  All sorts of critters get munched up in the machinery.  Ground nesting birds, snakes, turtles, frogs among other things.  That doesn't even get into habitat destruction caused by farms.

Your salad has a lot more blood on it than you might suspect.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 03:54:19 PM by Zerowantuthri »

Offline 2397

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2780
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2018, 04:37:23 PM »
Yeah, habitat loss is one of the major factors with farming. But meat production destroys more, because it requires significantly more land to feed the animals what they need to grow into food.

Offline Zerowantuthri

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 148
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2018, 05:05:09 PM »
Yeah, habitat loss is one of the major factors with farming. But meat production destroys more, because it requires significantly more land to feed the animals what they need to grow into food.

Sure but if the whole world went vegetarian you would probably hurt the developing world.  There are places in the world where grazing cattle is the only option.  The land cannot be converted for agriculture use.  Further, there are a lot of micronutrients necessary for good health that we can get in the developed world from a varied vegetable diet but which would be difficult to obtain in the developing world.

This would lead to weird results.  Either the developing world becomes the only place to eat meat or the developing world takes the opportunity to be the global producer of meat and we are back where we started (just moved the meat industry from one place to another).

That or you just let the people in the under developed areas of the world die.

Online arthwollipot

  • Reef Tank Owner
  • *********
  • Posts: 8846
  • Observer of Phenomena
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2018, 05:30:50 PM »
If the world went vegetarian, what would we do with all the animals?
Self-described nerd. Pronouns: He/Him.

Tarvek: There's more to being an evil despot than getting cake whenever you want it.
Agatha: If that's what you think, then you're DOING IT WRONG!

Offline PabloHoney

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 82
  • How many pits are in a pear?
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2018, 05:51:39 PM »
If the world went vegetarian, what would we do with all the animals?

Or more realistically, if lab-grown meat really took off. 

Good question. 
Here's one thing I found: https://www.thoughtco.com/what-will-happen-if-everyone-goes-vegan-127602
"If a large number of people were to suddenly go vegan and there were too many cows, pigs and chickens, farmers would cut back abruptly on breeding, but the animals who are already here may be abandoned, slaughtered, or sent to sanctuaries. "

Offline PabloHoney

  • Off to a Start
  • *
  • Posts: 82
  • How many pits are in a pear?
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2018, 05:55:35 PM »
I put a kielbasa in the tail pipe of my car and drove around for an hour or so too cook it.  My car has a gasket leak, so the 10w-30 fumes gave it a nice chocolaty flavor.

Offline DevoutCatalyst

  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1541
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2018, 05:57:14 PM »
If the world went vegetarian, what would we do with all the animals?

Keep some around for old time's sake?

http://livestockconservancy.org/index.php/resources/internal/about-us

Online bachfiend

  • Not Any Kind of Moderator
  • Well Established
  • *****
  • Posts: 1743
Re: Episode #663
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2018, 07:38:03 PM »
Yeah, habitat loss is one of the major factors with farming. But meat production destroys more, because it requires significantly more land to feed the animals what they need to grow into food.

Sure but if the whole world went vegetarian you would probably hurt the developing world.  There are places in the world where grazing cattle is the only option.  The land cannot be converted for agriculture use.  Further, there are a lot of micronutrients necessary for good health that we can get in the developed world from a varied vegetable diet but which would be difficult to obtain in the developing world.

This would lead to weird results.  Either the developing world becomes the only place to eat meat or the developing world takes the opportunity to be the global producer of meat and we are back where we started (just moved the meat industry from one place to another).

That or you just let the people in the under developed areas of the world die.

Your point about some areas of the world not being suitable for agriculture was actually addressed in the podcast.  It was noted that there are some parts of the world that will continue to rely on meat because the available land is only suitable for grazing.

Did you miss that part?
Gebt ihr ihr ihr Buch zurück?

 

personate-rain
personate-rain