Author Topic: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?  (Read 824 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline arthwollipot

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 7084
  • Observer of Phenomena
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2018, 05:33:44 PM »
I would say a realistic (for a superpower in a game, that's shouldn't be an overpowered character immune to any injury) interpretation is that they are sped up to the equivalent speed such that the activity from their perspective looks like normal speed to them.
I don't see how that's consistent with moving very fast from another person's perspective. If a person can run a mile in the time it takes another person to say "hey", then that "hey" cannot possibly be at normal speed for them.

I'm thinking Fry on his 100th coffee here.
Self-described nerd

Offline fred.slota

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 289
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2018, 07:57:52 PM »
I was more going for the reaction time, not the perception of the outside world.

A normal person at normal speed has normal reaction times, allowing you to walk and dynamically balance on uneven footing, and to recognize when you have stepped in a wad of gum as you raise your leg, and maybe catch a cellphone when you brush it off a desktop.

A speedster nominally in the normal world can have super-speed reactions, allowing normal walking and gum reaction, but if they brush a double-handful of change off a desktop, they can individually pluck all the coins before the hit the ground, sorting them into stacks of similar coin, sorted in ascending mint date.

But, a speedster running at super speed has reaction time equivalent to the normal person at normal walking speed, allowing them to walk and dynamically balance on uneven footing, and to recognize as they are raising their leg at super speed that they stepped in a wad of gum at super speed.



Or put another way, a normal person walking down a street while looking at a store window can walk into notice a lamppost out of the corner of their eye, but not react fast enough and walk into the lamppost.

A speedster walking at normal speed while looking at a store window can react to the corner of the eye sighting of the lamppost and step around.

But, a speedster running at high speed while looking at a store window is back to having an unavoidable accident with the lamppost.




It's harder to deliberately hit a speedster running at high speed, as he would see it coming, but a speedster could be equally distracted at high speed as a normal person at low speed, and both could have equivalent reactions and consequences.

Offline arthwollipot

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 7084
  • Observer of Phenomena
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2018, 05:34:20 PM »
A speedster moving at super speed with the reaction time of only a person walking at normal speed is going to slam themself into walls.
Self-described nerd

Offline fred.slota

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 289
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2018, 06:00:13 PM »
I must be describing this wrong.

Maybe I'm describing this badly.  It's a relative thing.  Let me slap some numbers.

A person operates at 1x speed, with 1x reactions, which is sufficient to walk on uneven ground, but not always able to avoid obstacles if, say, they're staring at a pulchritudinous jogger
 for one second as she passes, not being able to avoid a lamppost detected in the corner of the eye at the final 0.01 second.

Say a speedster has 100x  speed capability.

When operating at normal speed, they can detect and react at 100x normal.  They can walk at normal speed, pay attention to the jogger for a second, but with 100x reaction can swerve to avoid the lamppost, realizing the danger in the last 0.01 second.

But, if a speedster is running at 100x normal, their 100x reaction is equivalent to a normal walker at normal speeds.  They can run on uneven ground, just like a normal can walk on uneven ground.  But, running at 100x speed, as he covers the same distance in 1/100 the time, if he is distracted by looking at the overendowed jogger for 0.01 second, he should slam into the lamppost as well.  They don't get to run 100x normal, and react 10,000x normal.

If he's paying attention, he can avoid obstacles at high speed like we can at normal speeds; if he's distracted at high speeds, he can make high-speed mistakes just like we can make normal-speed mistakes.





When running at 100x speed, they

Offline arthwollipot

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 7084
  • Observer of Phenomena
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2018, 05:38:37 PM »
Yes, and just like we can stop in a moment at normal speed when we realise we've just stepped into a puddle, the speedster can stop in a moment at speedy speed when they realise they've just stepped into a Carpet of Entrapification.
Self-described nerd

Offline fred.slota

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 289
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2018, 05:50:41 PM »
Yes, and just like we can stop in a moment at normal speed when we realise we've just stepped into a puddle, the speedster can stop in a moment at speedy speed when they realise they've just stepped into a Carpet of Entrapification.

Ahhh, but is a speedster operating at speed walking or running?  Most speedsters are drawn in running stride at speed, not a mosey, not a stroll.  Unless they explicitly state they are doing a high speed walk, then they are running.

I would say a normal person running unexpectedly into a puddle would go a few steps before stopping, a normal person running unexpectedly into the carpet would stumble, and that a speedster would have the same reactions.

Offline Desert Fox

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 17582
  • Hopeful Non-Theist
    • Kitsune's Web Page
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2018, 02:34:25 PM »
I used Usain Bolt in the discussion a bit to argue with the player that if he was running and suddenly ended up a tar pit, he would end up with a similar issue.
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Offline arthwollipot

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 7084
  • Observer of Phenomena
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2018, 06:00:40 PM »
Yes, and just like we can stop in a moment at normal speed when we realise we've just stepped into a puddle, the speedster can stop in a moment at speedy speed when they realise they've just stepped into a Carpet of Entrapification.

Ahhh, but is a speedster operating at speed walking or running?  Most speedsters are drawn in running stride at speed, not a mosey, not a stroll.  Unless they explicitly state they are doing a high speed walk, then they are running.

I would say a normal person running unexpectedly into a puddle would go a few steps before stopping, a normal person running unexpectedly into the carpet would stumble, and that a speedster would have the same reactions.
We appear to have arrived at a consensus. They would certainly stumble, but they would certainly not be ripped in half or flattened on the ground.
Self-described nerd

Offline Desert Fox

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 17582
  • Hopeful Non-Theist
    • Kitsune's Web Page
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2018, 07:36:23 PM »
You don't trip on a carpet, you stop. You could be driving a 60 ton Abram's tank at maximum speed and you would stop effectively instantly. Imagine you are running with a set of permanent super magnets in the soles your shoes and somebody suddenly turns on a another super magnet under your feet.
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Offline fred.slota

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 289
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2018, 08:59:44 PM »
It's that "effectively" that, if you'll pardon the expression, trips you up.

Momentum and inertia, surprise and reaction time, regardless of if we're talking Carpet of Adhesion, super magnets, tree root or your best friend sticking out his foot.

If you are running and your foot (or feet) are, without warning, stuck in place, you will fall over.

Offline arthwollipot

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 7084
  • Observer of Phenomena
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2018, 05:51:31 PM »
"Stumble" wasn't the right word. The carpet, as far as I can tell, adheres one's feet to the ground. One might fall over. But still, because of the speedster's reaction speed, one would not be ripped to bits.
Self-described nerd

Offline fred.slota

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 289
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2018, 06:44:16 PM »
"Stumble" wasn't the right word. The carpet, as far as I can tell, adheres one's feet to the ground. One might fall over. But still, because of the speedster's reaction speed, one would not be ripped to bits.

We've chalked some level of bodily resilience up to the speedster's abilities, but I think most here have come around to my position that a speedster's high-speed running reaction time should be commensurate with a normal person's normal speed-running reaction time.  A speedster can have increased reactions when at normal speed, but when operating at increased speed, they don't get increased-increased reactions.  I would think that this would be a necessary narrative restriction on either a fictional or role-playing character to prevent them from becoming overpowered or invulnerable.



Now, a possibility we haven't discussed is the durability of the speedster's footwear, and if that offers an opportunity for an extra two steps of reaction time allowing an intentional stop...

I'm also unsure if, in Rifts, the Carpet of Adhesion is a technological or magical artifact, as it's possible that a magical carpet would include maintaining uprightness with its effects....

Offline Desert Fox

  • Poster of Extraordinary Magnitude
  • **********
  • Posts: 17582
  • Hopeful Non-Theist
    • Kitsune's Web Page
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2018, 08:10:00 PM »
Magic - If it was techogical, at some point there would be a breaking strength
"Give me the storm and tempest of thought and action, rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith. Banish me from Eden when you will; but first let me eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge."
— Robert G. Ingersoll

Offline arthwollipot

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 7084
  • Observer of Phenomena
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2018, 05:39:45 PM »
"Most here"? There's only the two of us discussing it.
Self-described nerd

Offline fred.slota

  • Keeps Priorities Straight
  • ***
  • Posts: 289
Re: Anybody familiar with Rifts - Potential Darwin Award?
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2018, 06:25:48 PM »
I was counting the voices in my...

Wait, was I typing that out loud?

 

personate-rain