Author Topic: VS: Who Would Win?  (Read 2647 times)

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Offline brilligtove

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VS: Who Would Win?
« on: May 19, 2018, 12:45:48 AM »
Rules:
Propose any combatant as your champion. "Any" means any entity alive or dead, real or fictional - as long as you didn't invent it. The first respondent proposes another combatant to battle the first champion. The players duke it out, arguing their champion's strengths and the enemy's weaknesses. References to reputable sources should be provided.

Observers - everyone who is not P1 or P2 - gets to weigh in on who they think would win. Any observer can declare their vote at any time, and switch that vote ONCE per team up.

Argument continues until one of the combatants calls for a FINALE. At that point all observers have one day to VOTE on who would win (or change their vote if already declared). Observers opinions and arguements are not considered a vote unless they explicitly state "VOTE:[Champion]". We must allow the devil to advocate.

The first time we play, the first 4 winners will be randomly assigned to brackets and pitted against each other. Playoffs should be interesting.  >:D Following seasons will require 8, 16, or even 32 winners - depending on how much we like the game.

Players in any round must be Observers in the next round unless it's the playoffs.

Example:

Player 1 proposes Jesus.
Player 2 steps in with Godzilla.

  • 1 and 2 duke it out, arguing 1:Jesus' strengths against 2:Godzilla's weaknesses, and vice versa. Observers chime in.
  • Observers participate in the argument.
  • One player calls for a vote on the combatants.
  • Observers cast votes on who wins within 24h.
  • A winner is declared.
  • Observers in the last round propose new combatants. (The players in round n can not offer combatants in round n+1.
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Offline brilligtove

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Re: VS: Who Would Win?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2018, 12:46:41 AM »
Since I'm the one who came up with the game idea, I'm gonna propose Combatant #1: Spider-Man.
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Offline HighPockets

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Re: VS: Who Would Win?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2018, 09:38:06 AM »
I will challenge with Sherlock Holmes.

Are you required to present the first salvo, or am I supposed to present the case as to why my combatant is superior?
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Offline fred.slota

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Re: VS: Who Would Win?
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2018, 09:41:41 AM »
Define "win".

Offline HighPockets

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Re: VS: Who Would Win?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2018, 11:39:04 AM »
Clearly it's because Sherlock Holmes was awarded the title for most portrayed literary human character in film & TV

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2012/5/sherlock-holmes-awarded-title-for-most-portrayed-literary-human-character-in-film-tv-41743
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: VS: Who Would Win?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2018, 11:37:06 PM »
I will challenge with Sherlock Holmes.

Are you required to present the first salvo, or am I supposed to present the case as to why my combatant is superior?

I can't defend against the unknown assailant except to note that only Batman might be more beloved a hero than Spidey, so you're welcome to begin.

Sherlock is an impressive sleuth and deductive intellect. Peter is a scientist, inventor, and crime fighter - all without a sidekick-for-sanity or a crippling drug addiction. Spidey might not deduce the bandit robbed the barber because your pants are beige, but he will take down baddies at a rate Holmes would envy.
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Offline fred.slota

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Re: VS: Who Would Win?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2018, 05:37:13 PM »
Sherlock Holmes would inevitably deduce Spider-Man's secret identity, and, if going for a win, would both make an announcement for JJJ and the Daily Bugle as well as informing the NYPD.  At a minimum, Peter would be on the hook for massive amounts of destruction of public property for his half of his altercations.

Offline HighPockets

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Re: VS: Who Would Win?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2018, 06:42:14 PM »
Peter Parker stumbles into solutions/wins of his problems, Sherlock already knows what the problem and solution is before he even starts. As he himself would put it;

"Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself; but talent instantly recognizes genius." -The Valley of Fear
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Offline PANTS!

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Re: VS: Who Would Win?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2018, 07:17:23 PM »
Observing.
Now where I come from
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: VS: Who Would Win?
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2018, 09:06:21 PM »
Peter Parker stumbles into solutions/wins of his problems, Sherlock already knows what the problem and solution is before he even starts. As he himself would put it;

"Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself; but talent instantly recognizes genius." -The Valley of Fear

That is taking Sherlock's deductive abilities too far. In many cases this is true, but when faced with a capable enemy or pernicious problem Sherlock does struggle. Peter is not a detective - just a genius with supernatural speed, strength, stamina, and nearly precognitive intuition. In a protracted engagement I am sure Sherlock could arrange a devious plan to best Spider-Man - but he would never have the chance to draw the conflict out.

As a final point against Sherlock, consider how many geniuses Peter/Spidey has overcome. The Kingpin is a criminal mastermind. Doc Oc is no slouch in the brains department. Neither is the Green Goblin. One of the only villains to defeat Spidey was Kraven - and I'm pretty sure he'd take down Sherlock too.
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Offline fred.slota

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Re: VS: Who Would Win?
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2018, 11:11:50 PM »
And, Sherlock Holmes always defeats all of his adversaries, except possibly against Moriarty at the end at Reichenbach Falls.

Both characters are, literally (and literary-ily) the heroes of their own stories.  Like investing, past performance does not necessarily predict future results.  This needs to be handled more based on actual abilities than on track records.


Spidey is fast and strong and has his danger-sense.  Sherlock might be an effective pugilist with fight-planning abilities, but in a straight-up fight, I see Spidey all the way.

But, that's not really a fair match-up.

Peter is a a scientist and an inventor, a brilliant mind.  When properly motivated, he can investigate and plan.  But, Sherlock would, I believe, operate above that level without even trying.

I see Sherlock out-analyzing, out-understanding and therefor out-witting Spider-Man.


(As an aside, I think Sherlock would be a near-shoe-in against nearly anybody.  I'm hard pressed to think who would have a plausible leg up on him.)

Offline HighPockets

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Re: VS: Who Would Win?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2018, 08:05:25 AM »
Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't.

Offline arthwollipot

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Re: VS: Who Would Win?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2018, 04:28:23 PM »
There you have it. Spidey loses. One little setback and he loses all confidence and contemplates giving up the whole game.
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: VS: Who Would Win?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2018, 04:34:46 PM »
There you have it. Spidey loses. One little setback and he loses all confidence and contemplates giving up the whole game.

Do you even narrative, bro? :)

And, Sherlock Holmes always defeats all of his adversaries, except possibly against Moriarty at the end at Reichenbach Falls.

Both characters are, literally (and literary-ily) the heroes of their own stories.  Like investing, past performance does not necessarily predict future results.  This needs to be handled more based on actual abilities than on track records.


Spidey is fast and strong and has his danger-sense.  Sherlock might be an effective pugilist with fight-planning abilities, but in a straight-up fight, I see Spidey all the way.

But, that's not really a fair match-up.

Peter is a a scientist and an inventor, a brilliant mind.  When properly motivated, he can investigate and plan.  But, Sherlock would, I believe, operate above that level without even trying.

I see Sherlock out-analyzing, out-understanding and therefor out-witting Spider-Man.


(As an aside, I think Sherlock would be a near-shoe-in against nearly anybody.  I'm hard pressed to think who would have a plausible leg up on him.)

I agree to the extent that they almost always win their own narratives. One collection of tales is about super powered people. The other is about a really smart guy.

I can construct one scenario where Sherlock wins: the same one you did. Otherwise? The smart money is on Spidey.
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Offline fred.slota

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Re: VS: Who Would Win?
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2018, 11:36:41 PM »
By the way, was listening to a Personality textbook (my wife teaches undergraduate Psych, will be teaching a new class with a new-to-her textbook, it's available in e-form with a text reader, we had a long car ride...   Stop judging me.)


Anyway, it mentioned anxiety.  The definition they gave was close to this dictionary one, "a feeling of worry, nervousness, or unease, typically about an imminent event or something with an uncertain outcome.", which made me ponder the following...



Spidey-sense is anxiety as a super-power.  Yup, he's from New York





BT (can I call you BT?): As the original proposer of this thread, I feel we need a little guidance on the proposed nature of this competition.  In your original post, you used words such as "combatant", "battle", "duke it out" etc.  Is this a Kirk vs. Gorn situation, where the two people are plucked out of time and space, placed in an arena and told "go at it" on the one end of the spectrum, with the other end being the most forgiving natural merging/collision of the separate character's universes and a more natural adversarial circumstance arising, where they would have whatever counts as natural discovery, buildup and ultimate confrontation. or something in between?

Would Tony Stark have awareness of Godzilla's existence and threat and the time to attempt to make a Nuclear Flame Breath SuitTM before a meetup, or does Godzilla suddenly appear outside a schwarma restaurant and Tony's stuck with whatever Mark-# he had in his back pocket at the time?