Author Topic: Episode #673  (Read 10565 times)

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Offline Steven Novella

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Episode #673
« on: June 02, 2018, 12:02:35 PM »
What's the Word: Irruptive
News Items: Colonizing Mars, Multivitamin Meta-analysis, AI Diagnostics, Musk's Twitter Breakdown
Who's That Noisy
Science or Fiction
Steven Novella
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Offline lucek

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Re: Episode #673
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2018, 07:17:10 AM »
0 degrees rankine is absolute 0 in Fahrenheit.
You have the power, but. . .
Power is just energy over time and. . .
Energy is just the ability to do work.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #673
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2018, 08:30:39 AM »
I wish that our "escape to reality" didn't have quite so much silly speculation about people becoming cyborgs, in a tone that suggests the speaker regards such sci-fi/fantasy notions to be science. "Gradually downloading our personality to an implanted computer"? Might as well talk about fighting off Bigfoot with a magic wand.

As for having kids on Mars, I cannot imagine anything more cruel and heartless than to condemn your kids to such a life.
Daniel
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-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline DevoutCatalyst

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Re: Episode #673
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2018, 10:04:03 AM »
As for having kids on Mars, I cannot imagine anything more cruel and heartless than to condemn your kids to such a life.
It's unknown if live birth or fetal viability are even possible with Martian gravity. If I recall there have been around a dozen or so kids born on Antarctica. None of them went on to live there. Nobody wants to live there. It's a tour of duty kind of place. Antarctica sucks. Mars is a far shittier place than Antarctica. If humans set foot an Mars my guess is that most will want the shortest stay possible. And only go once. Mars seems to me a near perfect prison with almost no recidivism.

Offline lucek

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Re: Episode #673
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2018, 02:10:38 PM »
I wish that our "escape to reality" didn't have quite so much silly speculation about people becoming cyborgs, in a tone that suggests the speaker regards such sci-fi/fantasy notions to be science. "Gradually downloading our personality to an implanted computer"? Might as well talk about fighting off Bigfoot with a magic wand.

As for having kids on Mars, I cannot imagine anything more cruel and heartless than to condemn your kids to such a life.
Depending. Let us assume for a second that we can make mars within an order of magnitude as safe as earth and children won't just die. It is entirely plausible that health effects of microgravity won't effect individuals born and raised in microgravity. In wich case we are talking the mane downside of only being able to live in microgravity. But any hab would be home.
You have the power, but. . .
Power is just energy over time and. . .
Energy is just the ability to do work.

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #673
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2018, 04:21:38 PM »
Physicians in NZ are seeing a rise in rickets... vitamin D,  Osteoporosis is rampant, K2... I am sure there is a more comprehensive list. 

Here in NZ we treat our soil with selenium as it isn't native to keep our animals healthy... kiwis need to supplement with it.

I wish Steve would stop saying 'fruitsandvegetables'.  There are not a lot of micronutrients in fruit, but there are in animal products and vegetables.  And of course, we need not fear the dreaded saturated fat anymore.
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #673
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2018, 04:56:29 PM »
I wish that our "escape to reality" didn't have quite so much silly speculation about people becoming cyborgs, in a tone that suggests the speaker regards such sci-fi/fantasy notions to be science. "Gradually downloading our personality to an implanted computer"? Might as well talk about fighting off Bigfoot with a magic wand.

As for having kids on Mars, I cannot imagine anything more cruel and heartless than to condemn your kids to such a life.
Depending. Let us assume for a second that we can make mars within an order of magnitude as safe as earth and children won't just die. It is entirely plausible that health effects of microgravity won't effect individuals born and raised in microgravity. In wich case we are talking the mane downside of only being able to live in microgravity. But any hab would be home.

There are so many unsupported assumptions in that. Assume we can make Mars "safe." Assume microgravity will be beneficial (in spite of all the evidence and experience from the ISS to the contrary). Then there is the implied assumption that health facilities will be comparable on Mars. (They won't! There will be no pharmaceutical manufacturing, no MRI machines, basically nothing but the 19th-century doctor's black bag.) And finally you discount the emotional and psychological effects of living in a confined space with NEVER any opportunity to get out and breathe fresh air.

There will be people willing to make all those sacrifices just to be "the first on Mars," and go down in history as such. But to condemn a child to that life is more cruel than the Spanish Inquisition. They just tortured you for a while and then killed you. This is condemning a human being to an entire life of misery.

Fortunately, I don't think we'll ever overcome the hurdles necessary to establish a colony there. NASA may send researchers, who will probably come back all fucked up from the cosmic rays and the microgravity, but at least those will be adults who make their own choice. Not children condemned to be born there and never have the opportunity for anything different.
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #673
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2018, 07:07:40 PM »
Physicians in NZ are seeing a rise in rickets... vitamin D,  Osteoporosis is rampant, K2... I am sure there is a more comprehensive list. 

Here in NZ we treat our soil with selenium as it isn't native to keep our animals healthy... kiwis need to supplement with it.

I wish Steve would stop saying 'fruitsandvegetables'.  There are not a lot of micronutrients in fruit, but there are in animal products and vegetables.  And of course, we need not fear the dreaded saturated fat anymore.

The adult equivalent of childhood rickets is osteomalacia not osteoporosis.  I suppose it’s a typo’.  I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s an increase in osteomalacia in NZ with the demonisation of sunlight.

Actually, some fruits do contain appreciable quantities of some micronutrients.  I’ve been playing around with an iPad App ‘Carb Manager’ to see what my diet actually looks like (it’s actually designed for the low carbohydrate/high fat ketogenic diet crowd, but it’s easy to use - and I come in at around my personal goal of 70/15/15 carbohydrate/protein/fat),  and I notice that bananas provide an appreciable percentage of daily vitamin B6 (OK, bananas aren’t fruit, they’re herbs).  Agreed - I get most of my micronutrients from vegetables.  And skim milk.

The recommendation is for ‘two fruit, five vegetables’ so there’s weighting for vegetables already.  I’m on ‘three fruit, 9 vegetables.’

I seem to deficient in dietary vitamin D, but I don’t think that’s a personal problem for me since I do get adequate regular exposure to sunlight.  Selenium doesn’t seem to be a problem for me since I exceed the recommended daily intake by several hundred percent.
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Offline GodSlayer

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Re: Episode #673
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2018, 11:57:16 PM »
big ups to Cara for coming back at Jay's natalist naivete on the 'born on Mars' issue (min.27)
Quote from: Thomas Carlyle
In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #673
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2018, 02:30:16 AM »
Physicians in NZ are seeing a rise in rickets... vitamin D,  Osteoporosis is rampant, K2... I am sure there is a more comprehensive list. 

Here in NZ we treat our soil with selenium as it isn't native to keep our animals healthy... kiwis need to supplement with it.

I wish Steve would stop saying 'fruitsandvegetables'.  There are not a lot of micronutrients in fruit, but there are in animal products and vegetables.  And of course, we need not fear the dreaded saturated fat anymore.

The adult equivalent of childhood rickets is osteomalacia not osteoporosis.  I suppose it’s a typo’.  I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s an increase in osteomalacia in NZ with the demonisation of sunlight.

Actualy, I was speaking of childhood rickets and adult osteoporosis, which is osteoporosis... a vitamin K2 deficiency (and more).  I eat a few apples a week this time of years, the Granny Smiths in the woolshed are still fine.  But I do eat a lot of vegetables, dairy, eggs and meat.  About to grill some very fresh lamb.  Thanks boys, you were very good animals.
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #673
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2018, 03:14:49 AM »
Physicians in NZ are seeing a rise in rickets... vitamin D,  Osteoporosis is rampant, K2... I am sure there is a more comprehensive list. 

Here in NZ we treat our soil with selenium as it isn't native to keep our animals healthy... kiwis need to supplement with it.

I wish Steve would stop saying 'fruitsandvegetables'.  There are not a lot of micronutrients in fruit, but there are in animal products and vegetables.  And of course, we need not fear the dreaded saturated fat anymore.

The adult equivalent of childhood rickets is osteomalacia not osteoporosis.  I suppose it’s a typo’.  I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s an increase in osteomalacia in NZ with the demonisation of sunlight.

Actualy, I was speaking of childhood rickets and adult osteoporosis, which is osteoporosis... a vitamin K2 deficiency (and more).  I eat a few apples a week this time of years, the Granny Smiths in the woolshed are still fine.  But I do eat a lot of vegetables, dairy, eggs and meat.  About to grill some very fresh lamb.  Thanks boys, you were very good animals.

Osteoporosis isn’t due to a nutritional deficiency.  It’s due to a lack of weight bearing exercise (it may result in colonists to Mars being able to return to the Earth’s three times gravity) and sex hormones.  Mentioning it in a discussion about micronutrients in the diet is silly.  Using vitamin K to treat it is controversial.

Apples aren’t a particularly good source of nutrition.  I hope your vegetables include a lot of Brussels sprouts and broccoli.  Looking at my diet, they seem very nutritious supplying a large percentage of nutrients.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 03:21:31 AM by bachfiend »
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Offline lonely moa

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Re: Episode #673
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2018, 05:17:02 AM »


Apples aren’t a particularly good source of nutrition.  I hope your vegetables include a lot of Brussels sprouts and broccoli.  Looking at my diet, they seem very nutritious supplying a large percentage of nutrients.

K2 is the vitamin that puts calcium where it belongs, the teeth and bones and not one's carotid arteries.

Apples are crap for nutrition, but they grow well here (we give away hundreds) and they are lovely to eat.  Generally, I eat lots of brassica, capsicums, allium, solanaceae, cucurbits, and legumes..  More vegetables than most vegans would consume.  We had the first meal of lamb (chops) tonight from Frank or Zappa (she named them)... absolutely stunning.
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #673
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2018, 05:57:41 AM »


Apples aren’t a particularly good source of nutrition.  I hope your vegetables include a lot of Brussels sprouts and broccoli.  Looking at my diet, they seem very nutritious supplying a large percentage of nutrients.

K2 is the vitamin that puts calcium where it belongs, the teeth and bones and not one's carotid arteries.

Apples are crap for nutrition, but they grow well here (we give away hundreds) and they are lovely to eat.  Generally, I eat lots of brassica, capsicums, allium, solanaceae, cucurbits, and legumes..  More vegetables than most vegans would consume.  We had the first meal of lamb (chops) tonight from Frank or Zappa (she named them)... absolutely stunning.

Osteoporosis isn’t the first thing you think of when you’re dealing with vitamin K deficiency.  The person would have a very serious bleeding disorder similar to poisoning with rat poison.

I doubt seriously you eat more vegetables than most vegans would consume.  I’m an ovo-lactovegetarian and my main meal of the day consists of a very large bowl containing at least 500 g of 9 vegetables, including your capsicums (which, by the way, isn’t particularly nutritious - broccoli and Brussels sprouts are much more nutritious).
« Last Edit: June 05, 2018, 12:07:17 AM by bachfiend »
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Offline Ron Obvious

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Re: Episode #673
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2018, 07:00:38 PM »
Did Evan really say nanotechnology is getting "bigger and bigger"?  :D

Offline bachfiend

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Re: Episode #673
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2018, 07:30:40 PM »
Did Evan really say nanotechnology is getting "bigger and bigger"?  :D

How is jumping the English Channel getting along Ron?
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