Author Topic: Holy Crap! This actually happened at work today.  (Read 6528 times)

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Online CarbShark

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Re: Holy Crap! This actually happened at work today.
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2018, 08:28:13 PM »
I suppose there is an interesting point there - what is the threshold for (positive) consent vs. (negative) lack of non-consent for this sort of thing?

I'd imagine that a significant proportion of paramedic engagements are with people unable to give any sort of meaningful consent.

I've done some training and interface with first responders here, and there's a actually a pretty well-defined procedure for this kind of thing.

(Note, all of this is in the United States, specifically in Oregon, other jurisdictions may vary)

If a person is unconscious or otherwise non-responsive, consent is implied by law, and first responders can go to work. Anything else would be totally unworkable. If the victim is obviously disoriented and not able to respond to simple questions, then consent is also implied. If they are able to respond, consent must be attained before treatment begins.

In something like this, first responders should be at least on scene, whether that's paramedics or an Emergency Response Team member trained in first aid. Consent can absolutely be declined, but a lot of paramedics actually ask that you sign something saying that you have been informed of the risks, and refuse treatment or transport anyway.

Interesting. Thank you, I believe that is the case in California as well.
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Online amysrevenge

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Re: Holy Crap! This actually happened at work today.
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2018, 09:55:26 AM »
I suppose there is an interesting point there - what is the threshold for (positive) consent vs. (negative) lack of non-consent for this sort of thing?

I'd imagine that a significant proportion of paramedic engagements are with people unable to give any sort of meaningful consent.

I've done some training and interface with first responders here, and there's a actually a pretty well-defined procedure for this kind of thing.

(Note, all of this is in the United States, specifically in Oregon, other jurisdictions may vary)

If a person is unconscious or otherwise non-responsive, consent is implied by law, and first responders can go to work. Anything else would be totally unworkable. If the victim is obviously disoriented and not able to respond to simple questions, then consent is also implied. If they are able to respond, consent must be attained before treatment begins.

In something like this, first responders should be at least on scene, whether that's paramedics or an Emergency Response Team member trained in first aid. Consent can absolutely be declined, but a lot of paramedics actually ask that you sign something saying that you have been informed of the risks, and refuse treatment or transport anyway.

Thanks, I assumed it was something like this, thanks for putting it in words.
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Offline AQB24712

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Hmm...?
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2018, 02:35:25 PM »
My favorite part is when carbshart argues company policies against the person who actually works there.

AQB the Mod says was that a slip of the digits, or a deliberate dig?  It's a funny one, but let us not escalate into modbox or warning territory, mmmkay?

AQB otherwise says how you doin' bud?  Is this the year you show up at NECSS with SHORTS! and CULOTTES! or maybe next year?
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Offline gebobs

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Re: Holy Crap! This actually happened at work today.
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2018, 02:41:57 PM »
I can just imagine a bunch of incredulous Chinese people hearing that one of their scientists passed out at a lab in the US and someone started giving them frickin' acupuncture.

"The Americans have gone absolutely mad."

Offline PANTS!

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Re: Hmm...?
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2018, 06:17:41 PM »
My favorite part is when carbshart argues company policies against the person who actually works there.

AQB the Mod says was that a slip of the digits, or a deliberate dig?  It's a funny one, but let us not escalate into modbox or warning territory, mmmkay?

AQB otherwise says how you doin' bud?  Is this the year you show up at NECSS with SHORTS! and CULOTTES! or maybe next year?

Nope that was not deliberate, and I will fix it.

And no - this is not the year.  I am saving for next year tho.

How are the L&O kitties?
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Offline AQB24712

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Re: Hmm...?
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2018, 08:46:06 PM »
How are the L&O kitties?

They are fine, shedding like mad and, being detectives, are VERY curious about this tip they got about dubious doings in a lab.  From an informant, street name fish-something (which they also find interesting).

We're never gonna get an update, are we, drfishthingy?  Maybe some water-cooler gossip?
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Offline fred.slota

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Re: Hmm...?
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2018, 12:08:17 AM »
My favorite part is when carbshart argues company policies against the person who actually works there.

AQB the Mod says was that a slip of the digits, or a deliberate dig?  It's a funny one, but let us not escalate into modbox or warning territory, mmmkay?

AQB otherwise says how you doin' bud?  Is this the year you show up at NECSS with SHORTS! and CULOTTES! or maybe next year?

Nope that was not deliberate, and I will fix it.

And no - this is not the year.  I am saving for next year tho.

How are the L&O kitties?
Is it just me that finds it humorous that the post where you tell us you're going to go back and correct an offensive typo memorializes that typo by including it in a quote chain?

Online CarbShark

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Re: Hmm...?
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2018, 12:42:25 AM »
My favorite part is when carbshark argues company policies against the person who actually works there.

AQB the Mod says was that a slip of the digits, or a deliberate dig?  It's a funny one, but let us not escalate into modbox or warning territory, mmmkay?

AQB otherwise says how you doin' bud?  Is this the year you show up at NECSS with SHORTS! and CULOTTES! or maybe next year?

Nope that was not deliberate, and I will fix it.

And no - this is not the year.  I am saving for next year tho.

How are the L&O kitties?
Is it just me that finds it humorous that the post where you tell us you're going to go back and correct an offensive typo memorializes that typo by including it in a quote chain?

It's just you.  ;)
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just a guy who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline drwfishesman

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Re: Holy Crap! This actually happened at work today.
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2018, 08:54:21 PM »
I can just imagine a bunch of incredulous Chinese people hearing that one of their scientists passed out at a lab in the US and someone started giving them frickin' acupuncture.

"The Americans have gone absolutely mad."
This actually happened. It was embarrassing. I'm glad I was not involved in the slightest and feel bad for our Administrators and Research Leaders.

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