Author Topic: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash  (Read 16549 times)

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Offline Shibboleth

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2018, 01:16:14 PM »
Other ex girlfriends of his are rushing to his defense saying that he never exhibited any of these kinds of behaviors. This is the hard part how do you not dismiss people that make these claims while at the same time not letting some disgruntled person wreck a another person's life with allegations.
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Offline Ron Obvious

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2018, 01:49:59 PM »
Other ex girlfriends of his are rushing to his defense saying that he never exhibited any of these kinds of behaviors. This is the hard part how do you not dismiss people that make these claims while at the same time not letting some disgruntled person wreck a another person's life with allegations.

Well said. I'd never heard of Chris Hardwick, but this modern phenomenon of throwing people under the bus solely based on these types of allegations is very disturbing to me. It certainly doesn't befit sceptics, IMO.  I personally find it imperative to not become emotionally invested in narratives because early narratives are almost invariably wrong and it biases my judgement.

"It is a capital mistake to theorize in advance of the facts. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." -- Sherlock Holmes.

Offline wastrel

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2018, 02:25:05 PM »
I'm still pretty hesitant to dismiss Dykstra's accounting of their relationship.  The relationship between Hardwick and Janet Varney or Andrea Savage had a different level of power dynamic.  There was a large age disparity between Hardwick and Dykstra, and their relationship overlapped with a significant surge in Hardwick's career.  I could easily see a confluence of a power imbalance leading Hardwick to adopt a different attitude towards her, one that she admits to submitting to.  This acquiescence could have further emboldened Hardwick to go much further down a controlling dynamic than he had with others.  This isn't to say she let it happen, that it is her fault, only that a shift in the dynamics of a relationship could easily account for a change in his behaviours.

I don't' think that a comparison of previous relationships necessarily discounts Dykstra's accounts.

Offline PANTS!

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2018, 02:31:13 PM »
Other ex girlfriends of his are rushing to his defense saying that he never exhibited any of these kinds of behaviors. This is the hard part how do you not dismiss people that make these claims while at the same time not letting some disgruntled person wreck a another person's life with allegations.

Well said. I'd never heard of Chris Hardwick, but this modern phenomenon of throwing people under the bus solely based on these types of allegations is very disturbing to me. It certainly doesn't befit sceptics, IMO.  I personally find it imperative to not become emotionally invested in narratives because early narratives are almost invariably wrong and it biases my judgement.

"It is a capital mistake to theorize in advance of the facts. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." -- Sherlock Holmes.

Which statements of her's makes you skeptical?
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Offline Ron Obvious

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2018, 02:35:16 PM »
Which statements of her's makes you skeptical?

You misunderstood me.  For all I know, she's completely accurate.  I'm just not in a position to know so I refuse to pass judgement at this stage.

Offline PANTS!

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2018, 03:07:36 PM »
Which statements of her's makes you skeptical?

You misunderstood me.  For all I know, she's completely accurate.  I'm just not in a position to know so I refuse to pass judgement at this stage.

OK then, Why do her statements fail to sway you in any way?
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Offline Ron Obvious

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #36 on: June 28, 2018, 03:35:48 PM »
Which statements of her's makes you skeptical?

You misunderstood me.  For all I know, she's completely accurate.  I'm just not in a position to know so I refuse to pass judgement at this stage.

OK then, Why do her statements fail to sway you in any way?

Haven't you ever encountered vindictive behaviour and vicious descriptions about an ex-partner from people after an acrimonious breakup? It's not uncommon and I always take it with a grain of salt.

It's just her story at this point as far I can tell, but I admit I haven't followed it closely. How the hell would I know what went on?

Offline Shibboleth

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #37 on: June 28, 2018, 03:41:06 PM »

I don't' think that a comparison of previous relationships necessarily discounts Dykstra's accounts.

I don't discount her but I don't think it is proper to pass judgement at this point. I don't discount either person's side of the story. I don't feel like there is a lot of evidence available for me to make any sort of conclusion either way. The allegations should be taken seriously and they should be looked into but I am against proclaiming him guilty until proven innocent.
common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

Offline brilligtove

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #38 on: June 28, 2018, 03:45:13 PM »
He said / She said situations are very hard to parse as an observer. I have no good reason to believe or disbelieve either of them based on the information specific to this situation. I err on the side of the person not in a position of power, because abuse of power can't climb a power gradient.* In this case Hardwick certainly appears to have had almost all the power, so I tend to believe her. I guess "trust but verify" is how I would look at this.

It general, it is entirely possible for two people to have done wrong and right by each other to varying degrees. Idealistically, I'd like there to be some sort of unbiased investigation that clears one or both of their reputations, gets relevant help for one or both, and delivers consequences appropriate to any harm done by either.

At this point I believe Dykstra has told her truth. I do not know how closely her truth matches events. That matters in that it effects the extent to which Hardwick caused her harm, and the kind of support she needs, and the kind of consequences that are proportionate.

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*One relationship usually has many power gradients in different dimensions. They don't always flow the same way.
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Offline Harry Black

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2018, 04:02:20 PM »
Ive never been accused of rape or emotional abuse by an ex.

I have friends who have been and at the time I believed their version and the 'woman scorned' narrative.
In more than a few cases its become clear that I shouldnt have.

Offline heyalison

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2018, 04:08:33 PM »
Does anyone have a verified, factual list of men whose lives have "been ruined" by false accusations? Not "vindictive behavior," whatever that might be, but actual public accusations of inappropriate, harassing, or abusive behavior that has been proven false, yet can be directly linked to ongoing and irreperable material harm to the man.

Offline Shibboleth

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2018, 04:15:54 PM »
Does anyone have a verified, factual list of men whose lives have "been ruined" by false accusations? Not "vindictive behavior," whatever that might be, but actual public accusations of inappropriate, harassing, or abusive behavior that has been proven false, yet can be directly linked to ongoing and irreperable material harm to the man.

I don't know of a list. If there is one I would think that it would be limited to famous cases.
common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

Offline heyalison

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2018, 04:33:05 PM »
Does anyone have a verified, factual list of men whose lives have "been ruined" by false accusations? Not "vindictive behavior," whatever that might be, but actual public accusations of inappropriate, harassing, or abusive behavior that has been proven false, yet can be directly linked to ongoing and irreperable material harm to the man.

I don't know of a list. If there is one I would think that it would be limited to famous cases.

Why would it just be famous cases? Don't you think if a man had been proven innocent, yet had life-ruining experiences after that, the news would be all over it? Or is there a conspiracy to keep these stories out of the news?

It seems like, despite the evidence, men center their hypotheticals and musings over the factual evidence about who commits sexual assault and emotional abuse, and how rarely those accusations are proven to be false. Yet still the woman's experience is routinely cast in doubt with either hard denials, being the Devil's advocate, questions of character, or just thinking out loud about justice. It doesn't bring anything to the conversation other than to cast doubt on women.

Offline Shibboleth

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2018, 04:56:49 PM »
Does anyone have a verified, factual list of men whose lives have "been ruined" by false accusations? Not "vindictive behavior," whatever that might be, but actual public accusations of inappropriate, harassing, or abusive behavior that has been proven false, yet can be directly linked to ongoing and irreperable material harm to the man.

I don't know of a list. If there is one I would think that it would be limited to famous cases.

Why would it just be famous cases? Don't you think if a man had been proven innocent, yet had life-ruining experiences after that, the news would be all over it? Or is there a conspiracy to keep these stories out of the news?

All I am saying is that if someone put a list on the internet of false accusations they probably haven't done a comprehensive review. Perhaps there is a journal article online that talks about it.

I am not casting any doubt on the women all I am saying is that with the evidence I have I can't pass judgement either way. Yes, what is called the 'second rape' does happen and it is awful and should be fixed but the fact that that happens doesn't mean that I have enough evidence to pass judgement. It could be that 99% of all women that make claims of sexual abuse are true but I still couldn't use that to say, "Hardwick did this and should lose his job." Both people have the right to defend themselves and present evidence before I or anyone else makes a judgement. I think AMC did it right by suspending programming until more information comes about.
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Offline amysrevenge

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Re: Chris Hardwick (Nerdist) is also trash
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2018, 05:43:29 PM »
I see a difference between, and have a different standard of evidence for, "Hardwick now makes me uncomfortable so I'm not listening to/watching his shows anymore", "it's not a good idea for someone's brand to give Hardwick a public-facing job", "Hardwick should go to jail".

I'm way past the first of those, pretty much up through the second, and in no position to even comment on the third, let alone have a firm position on it.

I consider that to be a reasonable and empathetic position, one that believes and accepts the woman's claims to a level of social surety (such as there is), but not to a level of legal surety.
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