Author Topic: Episode #675  (Read 9647 times)

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Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #675
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2018, 08:43:52 AM »
I believe the definition is pseudoscience is when unscientific ideas are presented as science. The show on which Mr. Nimoy acted was from start to finish, from top to bottom, from front to back and all the way around, pseudoscience, because it presented fantasy as science.

No, it was fiction. There's a big difference.

Fantasy is a sub-set of fiction. FTL travel, transporter beams, and English-speaking humanoids on planets never before visited by humans, are all fantasy. Yes, that's a category within fiction.

Yes, and neither are claiming to actually be true. Fiction by its very nature creates an alternative version of reality. The basis of science fiction is that in the created fictional universe, certain technologies are real. It says nothing about the real world, it doesn't claim to and no consumer actually wants it to. To pretend otherwise is to completely misunderstand the purpose of fiction.

But my point was that an actor who has spent the better part of his career in a show where magic is regarded as science should not surprise anyone when he hosts a show in which nonsense is presented as science. Nobody here would expect a TV "doctor" actor to know actual medicine. Why would anyone expect a TV "science officer" actor to understand real science?
Daniel
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"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Online CarbShark

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Re: Episode #675
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2018, 10:31:22 AM »
I believe the definition is pseudoscience is when unscientific ideas are presented as science. The show on which Mr. Nimoy acted was from start to finish, from top to bottom, from front to back and all the way around, pseudoscience, because it presented fantasy as science.

No, it was fiction. There's a big difference.

Fantasy is a sub-set of fiction. FTL travel, transporter beams, and English-speaking humanoids on planets never before visited by humans, are all fantasy. Yes, that's a category within fiction.

Yes, and neither are claiming to actually be true. Fiction by its very nature creates an alternative version of reality. The basis of science fiction is that in the created fictional universe, certain technologies are real. It says nothing about the real world, it doesn't claim to and no consumer actually wants it to. To pretend otherwise is to completely misunderstand the purpose of fiction.

But my point was that an actor who has spent the better part of his career in a show where magic is regarded as science should not surprise anyone when he hosts a show in which nonsense is presented as science. Nobody here would expect a TV "doctor" actor to know actual medicine. Why would anyone expect a TV "science officer" actor to understand real science?

It’s science fiction. If they presented those things as magic, then in that context it would be magic. But instead it was presented as science, which makes it science fiction or speculative fiction.

You’re simply arbitrarily disregarding accepted and well understood definitions of literary genres and replacing them with your own.

Science fiction is a thing unto itself. It’s not wholly a subset of any broader genre and it often crosses into many genre,  and there are sub-genres of science fiction.

Also literature is not like biology taxonomy. 

It’s not like all apes are mammals all mammals are animals.

Even the lines between fiction and non fiction can be blurred. 




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and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline daniel1948

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Re: Episode #675
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2018, 06:35:08 PM »
I believe the definition is pseudoscience is when unscientific ideas are presented as science. The show on which Mr. Nimoy acted was from start to finish, from top to bottom, from front to back and all the way around, pseudoscience, because it presented fantasy as science.

No, it was fiction. There's a big difference.

Fantasy is a sub-set of fiction. FTL travel, transporter beams, and English-speaking humanoids on planets never before visited by humans, are all fantasy. Yes, that's a category within fiction.

Yes, and neither are claiming to actually be true. Fiction by its very nature creates an alternative version of reality. The basis of science fiction is that in the created fictional universe, certain technologies are real. It says nothing about the real world, it doesn't claim to and no consumer actually wants it to. To pretend otherwise is to completely misunderstand the purpose of fiction.

But my point was that an actor who has spent the better part of his career in a show where magic is regarded as science should not surprise anyone when he hosts a show in which nonsense is presented as science. Nobody here would expect a TV "doctor" actor to know actual medicine. Why would anyone expect a TV "science officer" actor to understand real science?

It’s science fiction. If they presented those things as magic, then in that context it would be magic. But instead it was presented as science, which makes it science fiction or speculative fiction.

You’re simply arbitrarily disregarding accepted and well understood definitions of literary genres and replacing them with your own.

Science fiction is a thing unto itself. It’s not wholly a subset of any broader genre and it often crosses into many genre,  and there are sub-genres of science fiction.

Also literature is not like biology taxonomy. 

It’s not like all apes are mammals all mammals are animals.

Even the lines between fiction and non fiction can be blurred. 


And you're simply ignoring my point, which is: Why would anyone expect a TV show host to respect or understand science merely because he played a hyper-logical science guy on a science fiction show? You're confusing the person of Leonard Nimoy with the character of Mr. Spock.
Daniel
----------------
"Anyone who has ever looked into the glazed eyes of a soldier dying on the battlefield will think long and hard before starting a war."
-- Otto von Bismarck

Online CarbShark

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Episode #675
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2018, 12:32:47 AM »
I believe the definition is pseudoscience is when unscientific ideas are presented as science. The show on which Mr. Nimoy acted was from start to finish, from top to bottom, from front to back and all the way around, pseudoscience, because it presented fantasy as science.

No, it was fiction. There's a big difference.

Fantasy is a sub-set of fiction. FTL travel, transporter beams, and English-speaking humanoids on planets never before visited by humans, are all fantasy. Yes, that's a category within fiction.

Yes, and neither are claiming to actually be true. Fiction by its very nature creates an alternative version of reality. The basis of science fiction is that in the created fictional universe, certain technologies are real. It says nothing about the real world, it doesn't claim to and no consumer actually wants it to. To pretend otherwise is to completely misunderstand the purpose of fiction.

But my point was that an actor who has spent the better part of his career in a show where magic is regarded as science should not surprise anyone when he hosts a show in which nonsense is presented as science. Nobody here would expect a TV "doctor" actor to know actual medicine. Why would anyone expect a TV "science officer" actor to understand real science?

It’s science fiction. If they presented those things as magic, then in that context it would be magic. But instead it was presented as science, which makes it science fiction or speculative fiction.

You’re simply arbitrarily disregarding accepted and well understood definitions of literary genres and replacing them with your own.

Science fiction is a thing unto itself. It’s not wholly a subset of any broader genre and it often crosses into many genre,  and there are sub-genres of science fiction.

Also literature is not like biology taxonomy. 

It’s not like all apes are mammals all mammals are animals.

Even the lines between fiction and non fiction can be blurred. 


And you're simply ignoring my point, which is: Why would anyone expect a TV show host to respect or understand science merely because he played a hyper-logical science guy on a science fiction show? You're confusing the person of Leonard Nimoy with the character of Mr. Spock.


I agree with your point.

 I disagreed with your misrepresenting and trashing my favorite literary genre (and trashing one of my very favorite works in that genre) to make your point.


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« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 12:35:26 AM by CarbShark »
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.