Poll

Elon Musk

Love 'em
4 (16.7%)
Hate 'em
3 (12.5%)
Meh
17 (70.8%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Voting closed: July 31, 2018, 08:08:13 PM

Author Topic: Elon Musk, love him or hate him  (Read 8874 times)

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Online CarbShark

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Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« on: July 24, 2018, 08:07:18 PM »
Interesting discussion about everyone's favorite or least favorite tycoon

https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/make-me-smart-with-kai-and-molly/itunes/rss
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

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Offline Halleyscomet

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Re: Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2018, 06:32:23 AM »
Interesting discussion about everyone's favorite or least favorite tycoon

https://feeds.publicradio.org/public_feeds/make-me-smart-with-kai-and-molly/itunes/rss

He’s done some cool things and may yet prove an ultimate benefit to humanity. He’s also incredibly arrogant and clearly an asshole. He may be a narcissist, possibly a sociopath. Does that make his other accomplishments any less impressive? No, but it does mean I feel sorry for many of the people who end up working for him, especially at the manufacturing level.

He’s human. I can appreciate his accomplishments while thinking he’s an asshole.

I’m reminded of men like Henry Ford and Thomas Edison. Ford was a racist asshole responsible for a lot of ongoing anti-Semitic crap. He also essentially invented, or at least least popularized, the assembly line, a major component of modern industry. Edison was a glory hound jackass, often taking personal credit for the work of his brilliant staff. He also invented many core components of the modern world such as electric lighting and in-home wiring. We shouldn’t disparage the accomplishments of a person just because they were jerks.

Offline Harry Black

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Re: Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2018, 08:12:55 AM »
Is he providing progress that would not otherwise happen (even if on a different time frame)?
If yes then he ought to be tolerated but not celebrated.

It makes me feel a bit queasy that we celebrate achievement over values in our society.
Ford made some great advancements in automation but I dont feel the need to celebrate him.

Edison was constantly in a race against others for his achievements, so were they really that great in what they gave us vs what they gave Edison himself?

I think this is all an artefact of the 'Great Man' lense of history and culture that  we have all been socialised to appreciate.

As for Musk- He is just a CEO. So- Meh.
I dont think he deserves much more praise than other CEOs. I dont think he is the devil.

I wish we would value different things as a society rather than assuring people that once they hit a certain level, their flaws wont matter.

Offline amysrevenge

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Re: Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2018, 10:54:33 AM »
M

E

H
Big Mike
Grande Prairie AB Canada

Offline Soldier of FORTRAN

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Re: Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2018, 10:59:45 AM »
Him? Meh.

His work?  Love it.

He went through the hassle of giving rocketry and electric vehicles a jump in development, but he also appears to have let it go to his head and it's affecting his work and personality.
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Offline DonA

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Re: Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2018, 11:03:24 AM »
Not helping the situation since 1979.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2018, 11:11:21 AM »
Cautious optimism.  I really hate the irrational exuberance and now irrational hate that surrounds him though.

Tesla, still hasn't made a profit and at least at one point had a stock valuation similar to GM a company that produces orders of magnitude more cars.  I like that he's really pushing forward electric cars, though it may just be an idea whose time has come.

The dream pipe(his vacuum tube train) won't ever get built, if it will it will cost orders of magnitude more than he thinks, and its not even a new idea.

The boring company, classic example of a really smart and or successful person who thinks that being good at one thing makes them good at everything.

SpaceX, much like Tesla. 

So, I have high hopes for Tesla and SpaceX but the Train  and Tunnel are stupid. 

Offline random poet

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Re: Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2018, 01:33:24 PM »
Musk is a nutjob. Every time I hear about him, he's done some other stupid bullshit.

Like today: https://jalopnik.com/get-a-load-of-this-ridiculous-story-about-how-elon-musk-1827842961

He got lucky in the Internet bubble and made a ludicrous amount of money. He's not actually smart or "a visionnary." He's a rich loser who thinks he's Tony Stark.
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Offline The Latinist

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Re: Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2018, 01:51:16 PM »
It does seem to me, however, that Musk is becoming increasingly unhinged, perhaps in response to mounting concerns about Tesla’s ability to deliver the 3.  The discovery of employee “sabotage” seems to have coincided with a significant increase in paranoia.

Personally, I’ve always been bearish on Tesla.  They got out in front of the electric car market when it was still pricey and niche, but they didn’t really have any secret sauce that would prevent the bigger car-makers with established dealership and service networks from duplicating their successes eventually. And now we’re seeing that just when Tesla’s finally able to try to move from niche to mass-market, companies like Chevrolet, Ford, Volkswagen and Nissan are cathching up.  In the current climate, the delays he’s experiencing right now—even if a few months—could be the difference between long-term success and failure.
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Offline brilligtove

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Re: Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2018, 02:08:14 PM »
Cautious optimism.  I really hate the irrational exuberance and now irrational hate that surrounds him though.

Tesla, still hasn't made a profit and at least at one point had a stock valuation similar to GM a company that produces orders of magnitude more cars.  I like that he's really pushing forward electric cars, though it may just be an idea whose time has come.

The dream pipe(his vacuum tube train) won't ever get built, if it will it will cost orders of magnitude more than he thinks, and its not even a new idea.

The boring company, classic example of a really smart and or successful person who thinks that being good at one thing makes them good at everything.

SpaceX, much like Tesla. 

So, I have high hopes for Tesla and SpaceX but the Train  and Tunnel are stupid.

I disagree. Maybe he is overestimating his own capabilities, but he's not making stupid decisions about where he puts his time and money. The companies he's been coming up with all fit into one big strategic objective. Consider Tesla, SolarCity, Boring, and SpaceX in terms of the underlying technologies that make them possible.

* embodied AIs (cars, trucks, etc.)
* land vehicles (people and cargo)
* solar power collection
* power storage
* excavation
* space vehicles (people and cargo)

When you add the fact that he's aiming to have all these work at industrial scales, you can recombine them into several interesting capabilities.

* Autonomous excavators that work at scale, producing building materials as they make tunnels. (IP: Tesla, Boring)
* Essentially limitless electrical power to keep the excavators running (IP: SolarCity, Tesla)
* Spacecraft that can ship heavy cargo from Earth to the Moon and back.

He's developing the technologies and infrastructure to build habits on the Moon and Mars.

I expect his next big startup(s) and/or investment(s) will be a biotech company. I'm betting the products marketable on Earth will include biologically based air and water purification systems, high capacity non-animal meat production, and something like large-scale hydroponic farming.

Related technologies he might invest in would lead to a way to collect hydrogen from the solar wind. There's lots of O2 and Al on the moon, but the H part of H2O will need to come from somewhere, and getting it from Earth is not an inexpensive option. I'm thinking lunar satellites that use electromagnetic nets could drop Al canisters of H2 for collection by autonomous machines.

Oh, and he'll want to build a modular factory that can build excavators. When the factory is all shipped up there, the modules should self-assemble (mostly). Then it can autonomously build Boring machines using some supplies from the moon and a lot of stuff made on Earth.

Some of these capabilities are decades out, I'm sure, but a lot will be feasible much faster than we might expect. Autonomous machines, for example, are practically here already.

___

None of this means he's even remotely sane, let alone a good person. In some sense I'd say he's the ultimate prepper. What it tells me is that he has a Vision and that he's working toward it with tenacity and passion.
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Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2018, 02:20:57 PM »
Hionestly bill, I think you could have changed your, "I disagree..." to "I agree..." and left everything your wrote and it would make more sense.

Offline brilligtove

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Re: Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2018, 03:19:30 PM »
Hionestly bill, I think you could have changed your, "I disagree..." to "I agree..." and left everything your wrote and it would make more sense.

You mean me, right? (Not sure that counts as a typoo tho.  ;D )

I disagree with you specifically:
  • I think the trains and tunnels will get built, and that the costs will not be astronomical compared to his estimates.
  • The Boring Company is not an example of "...a really smart and or successful person who thinks that being good at one thing makes them good at everything."
  • "...the Train  and Tunnel are stupid."

SO THERE! ;)
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Offline Harry Black

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Re: Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2018, 04:18:03 PM »
On what do you base your confidence in what he will achieve?

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2018, 04:22:56 PM »
Hionestly bill, I think you could have changed your, "I disagree..." to "I agree..." and left everything your wrote and it would make more sense.

You mean me, right? (Not sure that counts as a typoo tho.  ;D )

I disagree with you specifically:
  • I think the trains and tunnels will get built, and that the costs will not be astronomical compared to his estimates.
  • The Boring Company is not an example of "...a really smart and or successful person who thinks that being good at one thing makes them good at everything."
  • "...the Train  and Tunnel are stupid."

SO THERE! ;)
I meant you, sorry for the typoe.  Now that you clarified you are planning wrong. His initial estimates for the costs of the dream pipe were about half what they should have just for materials and construction.

He thinks he can dig tunnels 5 to 10 times faster than folks with decades of experience in the field. 

In both case, I think he dramatically underestimates the regulatory hurdles on both projects.  CA is having trouble on that score with the train being built by the state itself. 

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Re: Elon Musk, love him or hate him
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2018, 05:25:54 PM »
I meant you, sorry for the typoe.  Now that you clarified you are planning wrong. His initial estimates for the costs of the dream pipe were about half what they should have just for materials and construction.

We don't really know that.
Quote
He thinks he can dig tunnels 5 to 10 times faster than folks with decades of experience in the field. 
He has hired people with decades of experience in the field.


Quote
In both case, I think he dramatically underestimates the regulatory hurdles on both projects. 

There is surprisingly very little regulation over tunneling in California, and so far hasn't been much of a barrier to him.

Quote
CA is having trouble on that score with the train being built by the state itself.


The High Speed rail that's being built is above ground almost entirely, and while it is having trouble, regulatory hurdles are not serious.

It's mostly cost overruns, NIMBYism and land acquisition.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

 

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