Author Topic: is it racist to argue in favor of...  (Read 4639 times)

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Offline Captain Video

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #90 on: September 14, 2018, 04:22:53 PM »
The studios definitely do some extensive market research before sinking money into a picture.

 ???  HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaH aHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

BTW not laughing at you John, just the thought
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 04:28:29 PM by Captain Video »
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Offline Guillermo

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #91 on: September 14, 2018, 04:32:52 PM »


I really enjoyed those books. I had no idea that Chris had no assigned gender, either. Scalzi has some interesting thoughts on the subject.

I think this sounds like a good break between Wheel of Time Books.
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Online brilligtove

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #92 on: September 14, 2018, 04:41:51 PM »
The studios definitely do some extensive market research before sinking money into a picture.

 ???  HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaH aHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

BTW not laughing at you John, just the thought

The problem with market research is that you tend to get answers to the questions you ask.

I know that sounds circular and stupidly obvious, but it's an enormous problem in many domains. If it never occurs to you that black people might go see a movie with black people on the screen, you never collect evidence to figure out if it's an option or not.
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Offline John Albert

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #93 on: September 14, 2018, 04:47:50 PM »
The studios definitely do some extensive market research before sinking money into a picture.

 ???  HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaH aHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

BTW not laughing at you John, just the thought

They don't? I was told otherwise.

Are you suggesting it still operates on sole decision of the fat old white guy with a cigar?

Online Calinthalus

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #94 on: September 14, 2018, 04:53:55 PM »
The studios definitely do some extensive market research before sinking money into a picture.

 ???  HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaH aHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

BTW not laughing at you John, just the thought

They don't? I was told otherwise.

Are you suggesting it still operates on sole decision of the fat old white guy with a cigar?
fat old white guys are tight.




Sorry, the discussion was reminding me of those "Pitch Meeting" videos.
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Offline Captain Video

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #95 on: September 14, 2018, 05:02:17 PM »
The studios definitely do some extensive market research before sinking money into a picture.

 ???  HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaH aHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

BTW not laughing at you John, just the thought

They don't? I was told otherwise.

Are you suggesting it still operates on sole decision of the fat old white guy with a cigar?

Most market research if any at all happens after the film is made. They have also learned not to trust it as much.

If by "fat old white guy with a cigar" you mean some producer or studio exec then yes but its more complicated than that and they are no longer just old white guys, but market research, no.
“Don't explain computers to laymen. Simpler to explain sex to a virgin.”
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Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #96 on: September 14, 2018, 05:15:22 PM »
The studios definitely do some extensive market research before sinking money into a picture.

 ???  HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaH aHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

BTW not laughing at you John, just the thought
lol that was my reaction to. From someone else in the "biz" I can guarantee you it's more of a boys club/handshake club than a well researched program, despite what they may claim. They're really good at reacting to market forces after the fact though. But a pretty stink has to be made on social media.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #97 on: September 14, 2018, 05:16:37 PM »
The studios definitely do some extensive market research before sinking money into a picture.

 ???  HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaH aHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

BTW not laughing at you John, just the thought

They don't? I was told otherwise.

Are you suggesting it still operates on sole decision of the fat old white guy with a cigar?

Most market research if any at all happens after the film is made. They have also learned not to trust it as much.

If by "fat old white guy with a cigar" you mean some producer or studio exec then yes but its more complicated than that and they are no longer just old white guys, but market research, no.

Part of their challenge is that it takes a minimum of two years from the moment a project is green lighted to a film's premiere, and often longer. Market research doesn't hold up over two-years.

Plus there's the old Hollywood rule that "no one knows" if a movie is going to be a blockbuster or a flop. Every film that gets green lighted is a huge risk, and getting bankable stars is the best way they know to minimize that risk, but even then any production can go right off the cliff.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Online brilligtove

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #98 on: September 14, 2018, 05:18:03 PM »
That's one of the things that differentiates Netflix from the competition: they use their information about what people watch to decide what to fund next. Note I said 'differentiates' not 'makes them better'. They have biases in their funding formulae too, but they do use data .to drive their decisions.
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Offline Jeremy's Sea

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #99 on: September 14, 2018, 05:19:28 PM »
The studios definitely do some extensive market research before sinking money into a picture.

 ???  HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaH aHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

BTW not laughing at you John, just the thought

They don't? I was told otherwise.

Are you suggesting it still operates on sole decision of the fat old white guy with a cigar?

Most market research if any at all happens after the film is made. They have also learned not to trust it as much.

If by "fat old white guy with a cigar" you mean some producer or studio exec then yes but its more complicated than that and they are no longer just old white guys, but market research, no.

Part of their challenge is that it takes a minimum of two years from the moment a project is green lighted to a film's premiere, and often longer. Market research doesn't hold up over two-years.

Plus there's the old Hollywood rule that "no one knows" if a movie is going to be a blockbuster or a flop. Every film that gets green lighted is a huge risk, and getting bankable stars is the best way they know to minimize that risk, but even then any production can go right off the cliff.
I had always heard it takes 8 years to make a film. When Charlie Rose asked Michael Bay the same question, Bay said about 8 years...
I do think star power in some cases brings at least part of an audience out, but the way streaming is changing the landscape, that mentality may not hold much water for much longer.
Knowledge is power. France is bacon.

Offline John Albert

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #100 on: September 14, 2018, 06:54:37 PM »
Most market research if any at all happens after the film is made. They have also learned not to trust it as much.

OK this makes a lot of sense.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #101 on: September 14, 2018, 07:31:11 PM »
The studios definitely do some extensive market research before sinking money into a picture.

 ???  HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaH aHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

BTW not laughing at you John, just the thought

They don't? I was told otherwise.

Are you suggesting it still operates on sole decision of the fat old white guy with a cigar?

Most market research if any at all happens after the film is made. They have also learned not to trust it as much.

If by "fat old white guy with a cigar" you mean some producer or studio exec then yes but its more complicated than that and they are no longer just old white guys, but market research, no.

Part of their challenge is that it takes a minimum of two years from the moment a project is green lighted to a film's premiere, and often longer. Market research doesn't hold up over two-years.

Plus there's the old Hollywood rule that "no one knows" if a movie is going to be a blockbuster or a flop. Every film that gets green lighted is a huge risk, and getting bankable stars is the best way they know to minimize that risk, but even then any production can go right off the cliff.
I had always heard it takes 8 years to make a film. When Charlie Rose asked Michael Bay the same question, Bay said about 8 years...
I do think star power in some cases brings at least part of an audience out, but the way streaming is changing the landscape, that mentality may not hold much water for much longer.

No argument there. I think he's probably referring to starting with a blank page and typing "FADE IN:" to the time the curtain opens at the premiere.

But I was referring to from the time the studio gets its first look at a production (including script; producers; director and cast) to the time the film is released.

But both could vary widely, and the longer it takes, the less relevant market research becomes.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Online brilligtove

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #102 on: September 14, 2018, 09:47:58 PM »
If the research is sufficiently broad to tackle large demographic shifts it should have some good staying power over time.
evidence trumps experience | performance over perfection | responsibility – authority = scapegoat | emotions motivate; data doesn't

Offline SkeptiQueer

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #103 on: September 15, 2018, 02:27:49 AM »
The studios definitely do some extensive market research before sinking money into a picture. Perhaps they're somewhat hindered by the methodology of the marketing firms who conduct that research.

If they were on top of their game, I'd have expected them to have seen the current paradigm shift coming at least a decade ago.
Im sure they do.
But the decision still falls to an exec and from the Sony hack we know how arbitrary and illogical they can be in their pronouncements.

The Sony emails out the pie to the efficacy of their market research. For example, execs didn't want Will Smith to go to Cannes because they had it in their minds that Europe was too racist for a black actor. Smith went on his own home and execs wrote it off as a fluke when he threw a party and was popular as hell, and continued using the "they don't like black people" justification for not opening Equalizer 2 overseas. If you start from a faulty premise, say by not promoting movies with a black lead overseas as much, then your market research will reach a faulty conclusion.
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Online Harry Black

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Re: is it racist to argue in favor of...
« Reply #104 on: September 16, 2018, 10:09:06 AM »
The studios definitely do some extensive market research before sinking money into a picture. Perhaps they're somewhat hindered by the methodology of the marketing firms who conduct that research.

If they were on top of their game, I'd have expected them to have seen the current paradigm shift coming at least a decade ago.
Im sure they do.
But the decision still falls to an exec and from the Sony hack we know how arbitrary and illogical they can be in their pronouncements.

The Sony emails out the pie to the efficacy of their market research. For example, execs didn't want Will Smith to go to Cannes because they had it in their minds that Europe was too racist for a black actor. Smith went on his own home and execs wrote it off as a fluke when he threw a party and was popular as hell, and continued using the "they don't like black people" justification for not opening Equalizer 2 overseas. If you start from a faulty premise, say by not promoting movies with a black lead overseas as much, then your market research will reach a faulty conclusion.
I was just reminded of this while thinking about the new Wahlberg dumpster fire.
Ostensibly, the plot should have revolved around the Iko Uwais character. He was more interesting, likeable and visually dynamic than Marky Mark, but nope. We got stuck with Wahlberg being a dick to people for 90min.
But what was really interesting, was the use of a fake country to stage the action in.
With the Equaliser and other action dad movies, we end up with the villains all being Russian or Chinese etc etc. However reliance on foreign markets now mean its harder than ever to find a financially safe scary foreigner, for our pure hero to tear through with his civilised, never fading 'skills' gained from service to a morally righteous crusade on behalf of Uncle Sam.

 

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