Author Topic: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?  (Read 4282 times)

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Online bachfiend

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2018, 04:49:49 PM »
This is a pretty good analysis of that study.

Low carb diets could shorten life (really?!) – Zoë Harcombe

Quote
Let’s look at the ‘science’…

We need to make a critical point up front: every headline using the words “low carb” was wrong. The first sentence of the paper was “Low carbohydrate diets…” This was also wrong. The full paper used the words “low carbohydrate” 40 times. That was also wrong – 40 times. Low carb diets have not been studied by this paper. Full stop. The average carbohydrate intake of the lowest fifth of people studied was 37%. That’s a high carb diet to anyone who eats a low carb diet. As we will see below, the researchers managed to find just 315 people out of over 15,000 who consumed less than 30% of their diet in the form of carbohydrate. The average carb intake of these 315 people was still over 26%. Not even these people were anywhere near low carb eating. Hence, if you do eat a low carbohydrate diet, don’t worry – this paper has nothing to do with you.

Here's a link to the study:

Dietary carbohydrate intake and mortality: a prospective cohort study and meta-analysis - The Lancet Public Health

Agreed, the Lancet study isn’t looking at your low carbohydrate/high fat ketogenic diet, which I noted in my comment.  Do you have any studies showing that your diet results in decreased mortality and longer life expectancy?  The study, although deeply flawed, did show a U-shaped mortality curve, which has to mean something.

You seem to be hypothesising that if the study is extended to separate out very low carbohydrate diets the U-shaped curve would become an N-shaped curve, with a very sharp fall in mortality (and increase in life expectancy) with very low carbohydrate diets compared to moderate carbohydrate diets, for which you don’t have any evidence.
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Online bachfiend

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2018, 05:40:54 PM »
Anyway.  To give the answer, there’s a very good report summarising the science of healthy diets.

It’s the 8th edition of ‘Dietary Guidelines for Americans 2015-20’, a 144 page guide published by the USDA.  It’s free and readily available on the Internet.  There’s a lot of good information and gives plenty of choices.

People like CarbShark persistently commit the ecological fallacy in asserting that because the recommendations don’t suit their ideology, and because the incidence of obesity and type 2 diabetes is increasing in developed countries such as America and Australia, then the recommendations must be changed and replaced with their diet.

Whereas the problem is that most people don’t follow the recommendations.  If people followed health recommendations, then no one would smoke cigarettes.  But they do, despite the warnings.  And cigarette companies are very profitable.
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Offline haudace

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2018, 05:42:55 PM »
More stuff on keto diet.

.

He's man pretty but he's also a real doctor of Osteopathic Medicine. He should have some authority on the issue.

Offline jt512

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2018, 06:03:49 PM »
I think the most sensible, objective, evidence-based nutrition info consistently comes from Walter Willett and colleagues at the Harvard School of Public Health.  Essentially, the confluence of the evidence suggests that the best approach for the average person would be to consume a traditional Mediterranean diet. Whole-food, plant based, little to no red or processed meat. Amount of fat and carbohydrate is less important than the quality: fats should predominantly be monounsaturated or polyunsaturated; carbohydrate should be whole grain.

Willet is a vegetarian (maybe vegan?) and while that's nothing to disqualify him, it's clear that his work shows a clear bias in favor of vegetarianism over consumption of meat and other animal products. I certainly wouldn't call him "objective."


Walter Willett is not a vegetarian, and I've never known him to recommend eliminating all meat from the diet.  You're nuts (see what I did there) if you think "his" work (the two largest epidemiologic studies in the U.S.) is biased toward vegetarian diets.  You've literally just made this up.



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Online bachfiend

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2018, 07:33:57 PM »
More stuff on keto diet.

.

He's man pretty but he's also a real doctor of Osteopathic Medicine. He should have some authority on the issue.

A real doctor?  Of osteopathic medicine?  Yes, he does have ‘some authority’ on the issue.  Very little to minimal authority.

Although, actually I don’t recognise ‘authorities’, just experts, and whether there’s adequate evidence or not for their pronouncements and recommendations.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2018, 07:39:12 PM »
I think the most sensible, objective, evidence-based nutrition info consistently comes from Walter Willett and colleagues at the Harvard School of Public Health.  Essentially, the confluence of the evidence suggests that the best approach for the average person would be to consume a traditional Mediterranean diet. Whole-food, plant based, little to no red or processed meat. Amount of fat and carbohydrate is less important than the quality: fats should predominantly be monounsaturated or polyunsaturated; carbohydrate should be whole grain.

Willet is a vegetarian (maybe vegan?) and while that's nothing to disqualify him, it's clear that his work shows a clear bias in favor of vegetarianism over consumption of meat and other animal products. I certainly wouldn't call him "objective."


Walter Willett is not a vegetarian, and I've never known him to recommend eliminating all meat from the diet.  You're nuts (see what I did there) if you think "his" work (the two largest epidemiologic studies in the U.S.) is biased toward vegetarian diets.  You've literally just made this up.

I may be mistaken about him being a vegetarian/vegan, but no I didn't make that up. I may have confused him with someone else. 

As for bias I should have specified I was referring to numerous papers, articles he has written, conferences he's participated in, and policies he's advocated.

I would not say that those two large epidemiological studies were biased. Their value may be questionable, but I am not claiming they show a vegetarian bias.
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I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline jt512

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2018, 07:41:47 PM »
I think the most sensible, objective, evidence-based nutrition info consistently comes from Walter Willett and colleagues at the Harvard School of Public Health.  Essentially, the confluence of the evidence suggests that the best approach for the average person would be to consume a traditional Mediterranean diet. Whole-food, plant based, little to no red or processed meat. Amount of fat and carbohydrate is less important than the quality: fats should predominantly be monounsaturated or polyunsaturated; carbohydrate should be whole grain.

Willet is a vegetarian (maybe vegan?) and while that's nothing to disqualify him, it's clear that his work shows a clear bias in favor of vegetarianism over consumption of meat and other animal products. I certainly wouldn't call him "objective."


Walter Willett is not a vegetarian, and I've never known him to recommend eliminating all meat from the diet.  You're nuts (see what I did there) if you think "his" work (the two largest epidemiologic studies in the U.S.) is biased toward vegetarian diets.  You've literally just made this up.

I may be mistaken about him being a vegetarian/vegan, but no I didn't make that up. I may have confused him with someone else. 

As for bias I should have specified I was referring to numerous papers, articles he has written, conferences he's participated in, and policies he's advocated.

I would not say that those two large epidemiological studies were biased. Their value may be questionable, but I am not claiming they show a vegetarian bias.


In other words, you had no valid basis for anything you said about Willett.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2018, 08:13:50 PM »
I think the most sensible, objective, evidence-based nutrition info consistently comes from Walter Willett and colleagues at the Harvard School of Public Health.  Essentially, the confluence of the evidence suggests that the best approach for the average person would be to consume a traditional Mediterranean diet. Whole-food, plant based, little to no red or processed meat. Amount of fat and carbohydrate is less important than the quality: fats should predominantly be monounsaturated or polyunsaturated; carbohydrate should be whole grain.

Willet is a vegetarian (maybe vegan?) and while that's nothing to disqualify him, it's clear that his work shows a clear bias in favor of vegetarianism over consumption of meat and other animal products. I certainly wouldn't call him "objective."


Walter Willett is not a vegetarian, and I've never known him to recommend eliminating all meat from the diet.  You're nuts (see what I did there) if you think "his" work (the two largest epidemiologic studies in the U.S.) is biased toward vegetarian diets.  You've literally just made this up.

I may be mistaken about him being a vegetarian/vegan, but no I didn't make that up. I may have confused him with someone else. 

As for bias I should have specified I was referring to numerous papers, articles he has written, conferences he's participated in, and policies he's advocated.

I would not say that those two large epidemiological studies were biased. Their value may be questionable, but I am not claiming they show a vegetarian bias.


In other words, you had no valid basis for anything you said about Willett.

No, I'd say much of the work he does seems biased.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline jt512

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2018, 08:20:49 PM »
I think the most sensible, objective, evidence-based nutrition info consistently comes from Walter Willett and colleagues at the Harvard School of Public Health.  Essentially, the confluence of the evidence suggests that the best approach for the average person would be to consume a traditional Mediterranean diet. Whole-food, plant based, little to no red or processed meat. Amount of fat and carbohydrate is less important than the quality: fats should predominantly be monounsaturated or polyunsaturated; carbohydrate should be whole grain.

Willet is a vegetarian (maybe vegan?) and while that's nothing to disqualify him, it's clear that his work shows a clear bias in favor of vegetarianism over consumption of meat and other animal products. I certainly wouldn't call him "objective."


Walter Willett is not a vegetarian, and I've never known him to recommend eliminating all meat from the diet.  You're nuts (see what I did there) if you think "his" work (the two largest epidemiologic studies in the U.S.) is biased toward vegetarian diets.  You've literally just made this up.

I may be mistaken about him being a vegetarian/vegan, but no I didn't make that up. I may have confused him with someone else. 

As for bias I should have specified I was referring to numerous papers, articles he has written, conferences he's participated in, and policies he's advocated.

I would not say that those two large epidemiological studies were biased. Their value may be questionable, but I am not claiming they show a vegetarian bias.


In other words, you had no valid basis for anything you said about Willett.

No, I'd say much of the work he does seems biased.


What specific work of his "seems" biased to you?  What is the statistical or scientific source of the bias?



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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2018, 08:32:13 PM »
I just want to point out that "healthy diet" and "keto diet" are not absolute synonyms. There are healthy diets that are not keto.
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Offline jt512

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2018, 08:33:25 PM »
I just want to point out that "healthy diet" and "keto diet" are not absolute synonyms. There are healthy diets that are not keto.


Point out to whom?  Everybody knows that. 
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2018, 08:43:07 PM »
I just want to point out that "healthy diet" and "keto diet" are not absolute synonyms. There are healthy diets that are not keto.


Point out to whom?  Everybody knows that.

CarbShark doesn't seem to.
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Offline haudace

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2018, 08:43:14 PM »
More stuff on keto diet.

.

He's man pretty but he's also a real doctor of Osteopathic Medicine. He should have some authority on the issue.

A real doctor?  Of osteopathic medicine?  Yes, he does have ‘some authority’ on the issue.  Very little to minimal authority.

Although, actually I don’t recognise ‘authorities’, just experts, and whether there’s adequate evidence or not for their pronouncements and recommendations.

1. It would be difficult to practice his type of medicine without knowing how the body builds and maintain such body structures. In fact, do you realize Osteopathy crosses into other medical disciplines far and wide as well?

2. Can you point out the parts where he is incorrect?
For now I will leave you the following link to his Atlantic Health System profile. He has also been featured in NYIT blog. I wouldn't so readily dismiss his credentials.

Offline jt512

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2018, 08:45:30 PM »
I just want to point out that "healthy diet" and "keto diet" are not absolute synonyms. There are healthy diets that are not keto.


Point out to whom?  Everybody knows that.

CarbShark doesn't seem to.


True.  But we all know that too.
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Offline arthwollipot

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2018, 08:49:00 PM »
I just want to point out that "healthy diet" and "keto diet" are not absolute synonyms. There are healthy diets that are not keto.


Point out to whom?  Everybody knows that.

CarbShark doesn't seem to.


True.  But we all know that too.

I guess so.
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