Author Topic: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?  (Read 4262 times)

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Offline jt512

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #90 on: September 29, 2018, 05:04:01 PM »
Hey, Moderators, this very interesting conversation about a healthy diet has been derailed by an interesting discussion about the science of epidemiological studies vs. RCTs.

Maybe someone could move these posts into a new thread?

I think the discussion is relevant.  The OP asked if there are scientifically valid articles on diets.  Were discussing the validity of the science.
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #91 on: September 29, 2018, 05:07:59 PM »
jt,

You’re very, very confused.  I’m not arguing that if a single, or even a number of, long-term observational studies fail to show a benefit in restricting dietary saturated fat intake, that medical authorities ought to drop their guideline advising that it’s restricted.

Obviously, you have to consider ALL studies, and do a Bayesian analysis.  But if you can’t demonstrate a benefit in any study, regardless of what the basic science says, you can’t recommend that intervention.

And I’m not being inconsistent when I note that I do it anyway.  I decided to cut down on fat decades ago when I was trying to lose weight from a previous 86 kg (and a BMI getting dangerously close to the obese 30 kg/m^2).  My tastes have subsequently changed as a result.  I just don’t like the taste of fatty foods.  I find skim milk perfectly palatable, and whole milk too rich.
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Offline jt512

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #92 on: September 29, 2018, 05:12:17 PM »
jt,

You’re very, very confused.  I’m not arguing that if a single, or even a number of, long-term observational studies fail to show a benefit in restricting dietary saturated fat intake, that medical authorities ought to drop their guideline advising that it’s restricted.

Actually, that's pretty much what you said.

Quote
Obviously, you have to consider ALL studies, and do a Bayesian analysis.  But if you can’t demonstrate a benefit in any study, regardless of what the basic science says, you can’t recommend that intervention.

And you just said it again.
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #93 on: September 29, 2018, 05:15:09 PM »
Hey, Moderators, this very interesting conversation about a healthy diet has been derailed by an interesting discussion about the science of epidemiological studies vs. RCTs.

Maybe someone could move these posts into a new thread?

Well, why don’t you do it?  Anyone can start a new thread.  I started one this morning concerning the Melbourne zoo having to stop feeding their animals fruit because they’re getting too obese.  So the zoo animals are overweight, probably too sedentary and eating too much sugar.  I wonder if their risk of heart disease and type 2 diabetes is also increasing?
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #94 on: September 29, 2018, 08:08:28 PM »
Hey, Moderators, this very interesting conversation about a healthy diet has been derailed by an interesting discussion about the science of epidemiological studies vs. RCTs.

Maybe someone could move these posts into a new thread?

Well, why don’t you do it?  Anyone can start a new thread.  I started one this morning concerning the Melbourne zoo having to stop feeding their animals fruit because they’re getting too obese.  So the zoo animals are overweight, probably too sedentary and eating too much sugar.  I wonder if their risk of heart disease and type 2 diabetes is also increasing?

I can start a thread but can't move posts.

Yes, fruit is obesigenic. I'm sure some of them do suffer from other diseases caused by high carb intake. Your point? Maybe Zookeepers are smarter than those who promote the USDA dietary guidelines?  I'm there with you.
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #95 on: September 29, 2018, 08:38:22 PM »
Hey, Moderators, this very interesting conversation about a healthy diet has been derailed by an interesting discussion about the science of epidemiological studies vs. RCTs.

Maybe someone could move these posts into a new thread?

Well, why don’t you do it?  Anyone can start a new thread.  I started one this morning concerning the Melbourne zoo having to stop feeding their animals fruit because they’re getting too obese.  So the zoo animals are overweight, probably too sedentary and eating too much sugar.  I wonder if their risk of heart disease and type 2 diabetes is also increasing?

I can start a thread but can't move posts.

Yes, fruit is obesigenic. I'm sure some of them do suffer from other diseases caused by high carb intake. Your point? Maybe Zookeepers are smarter than those who promote the USDA dietary guidelines?  I'm there with you.

Well, you can still start a new thread.  I thought you’d invented a new word with ‘obesigenic,’ but I find that obesogenic is a perfectly acceptable word.

Strawberries recently have come into season in Australia, and there’s also been a contamination panic with unknown miscreants inserting needles into rare berries, so the growers have been forced to either dump their strawberries or slash their prices, so strawberries have become very cheap, and I’ve been eating a lot of them (previously I hadn’t bought them, considering them overpriced compared to other fruits) as much as 500 g a day, and I love them.  And haven’t felt better.  And they’re an excellent food item, being low in calories for their weight.

The trouble is, they’re replacing other foods which are more calorie dense, so I’m losing weight...  what do the guidelines recommend?  Two serves of fruit and 5 serves of vegetables?  You don’t have to follow the guidelines, but you should be aware of them, and you should be aware of when you break them, as I do.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #96 on: September 29, 2018, 09:06:52 PM »
If they're replacing some of that bread that could explain the weight loss.
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #97 on: September 29, 2018, 09:12:04 PM »
If they're replacing some of that bread that could explain the weight loss.

No, I’m still eating the same amount of bread.  I think I’ve actually reduced the amount of vegetables.
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Offline jt512

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #98 on: September 29, 2018, 10:09:14 PM »
Quote

Yes, fruit is obesigenic. I'm sure some of them do suffer from other diseases caused by high carb intake. Your point? Maybe Zookeepers are smarter than those who promote the USDA dietary guidelines?  I'm there with you.

Well, you can still start a new thread.  I thought you’d invented a new word with ‘obesigenic,’ but I find that obesogenic is a perfectly acceptable word.

Strawberries recently have come into season in Australia, and there’s also been a contamination panic with unknown miscreants inserting needles into rare berries, so the growers have been forced to either dump their strawberries or slash their prices, so strawberries have become very cheap, and I’ve been eating a lot of them (previously I hadn’t bought them, considering them overpriced compared to other fruits) as much as 500 g a day, and I love them.  And haven’t felt better.  And they’re an excellent food item, being low in calories for their weight.

The trouble is, they’re replacing other foods which are more calorie dense, so I’m losing weight...


Yeah, there's nothing obesigenic about fruit.  A medium-sized apple contains 95 kcal.  You'd have eat 21 of them to obtain 2000 kcal. 
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Offline bachfiend

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #99 on: September 29, 2018, 10:21:27 PM »
Quote

Yes, fruit is obesigenic. I'm sure some of them do suffer from other diseases caused by high carb intake. Your point? Maybe Zookeepers are smarter than those who promote the USDA dietary guidelines?  I'm there with you.

Well, you can still start a new thread.  I thought you’d invented a new word with ‘obesigenic,’ but I find that obesogenic is a perfectly acceptable word.

Strawberries recently have come into season in Australia, and there’s also been a contamination panic with unknown miscreants inserting needles into rare berries, so the growers have been forced to either dump their strawberries or slash their prices, so strawberries have become very cheap, and I’ve been eating a lot of them (previously I hadn’t bought them, considering them overpriced compared to other fruits) as much as 500 g a day, and I love them.  And haven’t felt better.  And they’re an excellent food item, being low in calories for their weight.

The trouble is, they’re replacing other foods which are more calorie dense, so I’m losing weight...


Yeah, there's nothing obesigenic about fruit.  A medium-sized apple contains 95 kcal.  You'd have eat 21 of them to obtain 2000 kcal.

Agreed.  Although apples aren’t particularly nutritious.  There are better fruits around.  I eat two a day, including everything - the skin, the core, the seeds, the stalk, even the label sometimes (I claim that it increases dietary fibre)...  it’s ‘obesogenic’ by the way, not ‘obesigenic.’  Is it an American spelling or the American pronunciation?
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Offline jt512

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #100 on: September 29, 2018, 11:43:16 PM »
Quote

Yes, fruit is obesigenic. I'm sure some of them do suffer from other diseases caused by high carb intake. Your point? Maybe Zookeepers are smarter than those who promote the USDA dietary guidelines?  I'm there with you.

Well, you can still start a new thread.  I thought you’d invented a new word with ‘obesigenic,’ but I find that obesogenic is a perfectly acceptable word.

Strawberries recently have come into season in Australia, and there’s also been a contamination panic with unknown miscreants inserting needles into rare berries, so the growers have been forced to either dump their strawberries or slash their prices, so strawberries have become very cheap, and I’ve been eating a lot of them (previously I hadn’t bought them, considering them overpriced compared to other fruits) as much as 500 g a day, and I love them.  And haven’t felt better.  And they’re an excellent food item, being low in calories for their weight.

The trouble is, they’re replacing other foods which are more calorie dense, so I’m losing weight...


Yeah, there's nothing obesigenic about fruit.  A medium-sized apple contains 95 kcal.  You'd have eat 21 of them to obtain 2000 kcal.

Agreed.  Although apples aren’t particularly nutritious.  There are better fruits around.  I eat two a day, including everything - the skin, the core, the seeds, the stalk, even the label sometimes (I claim that it increases dietary fibre)...  it’s ‘obesogenic’ by the way, not ‘obesigenic.’  Is it an American spelling or the American pronunciation?


Oh, you're right.  It's "obesogenic."  My spell checker didn't like either spelling, so I just went with the one that Carbshark used.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #101 on: September 30, 2018, 10:50:07 AM »
Quote

Yes, fruit is obesigenic. I'm sure some of them do suffer from other diseases caused by high carb intake. Your point? Maybe Zookeepers are smarter than those who promote the USDA dietary guidelines?  I'm there with you.

Well, you can still start a new thread.  I thought you’d invented a new word with ‘obesigenic,’ but I find that obesogenic is a perfectly acceptable word.

Strawberries recently have come into season in Australia, and there’s also been a contamination panic with unknown miscreants inserting needles into rare berries, so the growers have been forced to either dump their strawberries or slash their prices, so strawberries have become very cheap, and I’ve been eating a lot of them (previously I hadn’t bought them, considering them overpriced compared to other fruits) as much as 500 g a day, and I love them.  And haven’t felt better.  And they’re an excellent food item, being low in calories for their weight.

The trouble is, they’re replacing other foods which are more calorie dense, so I’m losing weight...


Yeah, there's nothing obesigenic about fruit.  A medium-sized apple contains 95 kcal.  You'd have eat 21 of them to obtain 2000 kcal.

Agreed.  Although apples aren’t particularly nutritious.  There are better fruits around.  I eat two a day, including everything - the skin, the core, the seeds, the stalk, even the label sometimes (I claim that it increases dietary fibre)...  it’s ‘obesogenic’ by the way, not ‘obesigenic.’  Is it an American spelling or the American pronunciation?


So which is it? Fruit is causing increased obesity in zoo animals or its not obesogenic?



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and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline jt512

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #102 on: September 30, 2018, 11:07:32 AM »
Quote

Yes, fruit is obesigenic. I'm sure some of them do suffer from other diseases caused by high carb intake. Your point? Maybe Zookeepers are smarter than those who promote the USDA dietary guidelines?  I'm there with you.

Well, you can still start a new thread.  I thought you’d invented a new word with ‘obesigenic,’ but I find that obesogenic is a perfectly acceptable word.

Strawberries recently have come into season in Australia, and there’s also been a contamination panic with unknown miscreants inserting needles into rare berries, so the growers have been forced to either dump their strawberries or slash their prices, so strawberries have become very cheap, and I’ve been eating a lot of them (previously I hadn’t bought them, considering them overpriced compared to other fruits) as much as 500 g a day, and I love them.  And haven’t felt better.  And they’re an excellent food item, being low in calories for their weight.

The trouble is, they’re replacing other foods which are more calorie dense, so I’m losing weight...


Yeah, there's nothing obesigenic about fruit.  A medium-sized apple contains 95 kcal.  You'd have eat 21 of them to obtain 2000 kcal.

Agreed.  Although apples aren’t particularly nutritious.  There are better fruits around.  I eat two a day, including everything - the skin, the core, the seeds, the stalk, even the label sometimes (I claim that it increases dietary fibre)...  it’s ‘obesogenic’ by the way, not ‘obesigenic.’  Is it an American spelling or the American pronunciation?

So which is it? Fruit is causing increased obesity in zoo animals or its not obesogenic?

It's neither.  Excess calorie consumption relative to energy expenditures is causing the animals to gain weight.
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Offline CarbShark

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #103 on: September 30, 2018, 11:34:31 AM »
Quote

Yes, fruit is obesigenic. I'm sure some of them do suffer from other diseases caused by high carb intake. Your point? Maybe Zookeepers are smarter than those who promote the USDA dietary guidelines?  I'm there with you.

Well, you can still start a new thread.  I thought you’d invented a new word with ‘obesigenic,’ but I find that obesogenic is a perfectly acceptable word.

Strawberries recently have come into season in Australia, and there’s also been a contamination panic with unknown miscreants inserting needles into rare berries, so the growers have been forced to either dump their strawberries or slash their prices, so strawberries have become very cheap, and I’ve been eating a lot of them (previously I hadn’t bought them, considering them overpriced compared to other fruits) as much as 500 g a day, and I love them.  And haven’t felt better.  And they’re an excellent food item, being low in calories for their weight.

The trouble is, they’re replacing other foods which are more calorie dense, so I’m losing weight...


Yeah, there's nothing obesigenic about fruit.  A medium-sized apple contains 95 kcal.  You'd have eat 21 of them to obtain 2000 kcal.

Agreed.  Although apples aren’t particularly nutritious.  There are better fruits around.  I eat two a day, including everything - the skin, the core, the seeds, the stalk, even the label sometimes (I claim that it increases dietary fibre)...  it’s ‘obesogenic’ by the way, not ‘obesigenic.’  Is it an American spelling or the American pronunciation?

So which is it? Fruit is causing increased obesity in zoo animals or its not obesogenic?

It's neither.  Excess calorie consumption relative to energy expenditures is causing the animals to gain weight.

That's more of an effect than a cause. Excess stored fat is calories that have been consumed but not burned, you're saying that caused by calories being consumed but not burned.

The question is what's causing that? And, more importantly, what's changed in the last few years to cause that now?

And are the Zookeepers wrong to withhold fruit?

Apparently replacing fruit with other foods works, why is that?

Why do some foods cause excess calories to be consumed but not burned while others do not?
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just someone who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline jt512

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Re: Any science-based article summarizing a healthy diet?
« Reply #104 on: September 30, 2018, 11:43:29 AM »
Quote

Yes, fruit is obesigenic. I'm sure some of them do suffer from other diseases caused by high carb intake. Your point? Maybe Zookeepers are smarter than those who promote the USDA dietary guidelines?  I'm there with you.

Well, you can still start a new thread.  I thought you’d invented a new word with ‘obesigenic,’ but I find that obesogenic is a perfectly acceptable word.

Strawberries recently have come into season in Australia, and there’s also been a contamination panic with unknown miscreants inserting needles into rare berries, so the growers have been forced to either dump their strawberries or slash their prices, so strawberries have become very cheap, and I’ve been eating a lot of them (previously I hadn’t bought them, considering them overpriced compared to other fruits) as much as 500 g a day, and I love them.  And haven’t felt better.  And they’re an excellent food item, being low in calories for their weight.

The trouble is, they’re replacing other foods which are more calorie dense, so I’m losing weight...


Yeah, there's nothing obesigenic about fruit.  A medium-sized apple contains 95 kcal.  You'd have eat 21 of them to obtain 2000 kcal.

Agreed.  Although apples aren’t particularly nutritious.  There are better fruits around.  I eat two a day, including everything - the skin, the core, the seeds, the stalk, even the label sometimes (I claim that it increases dietary fibre)...  it’s ‘obesogenic’ by the way, not ‘obesigenic.’  Is it an American spelling or the American pronunciation?

So which is it? Fruit is causing increased obesity in zoo animals or its not obesogenic?

It's neither.  Excess calorie consumption relative to energy expenditures is causing the animals to gain weight.

That's more of an effect than a cause. Excess stored fat is calories that have been consumed but not burned, you're saying that caused by calories being consumed but not burned.

The question is what's causing that? And, more importantly, what's changed in the last few years to cause that now?

And are the Zookeepers wrong to withhold fruit?

Apparently replacing fruit with other foods works, why is that?

Assuming it actually does "work," it would due to effects on appetite or satiety.  Also, limiting the variety of available foods reduces consumption in humans. Don't know about non-humans.[/quote]

Quote
Why do some foods cause excess calories to be consumed but not burned while others do not?

They don't.  It's just calories in vs. calories out.
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