Author Topic: Is the water molecule really an allergen?  (Read 8148 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Shrooborb

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 106
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2018, 01:34:40 AM »
She says that doctors have diagnosed her with an allergy to the H2O molecule.

Not to 'cold, or to contaminants in the water.

Offline jt512

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2390
    • jt512
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2018, 02:40:59 AM »
Not a true allergy, but a real condition:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquagenic_urticaria#mw-head
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof.

Offline Shrooborb

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 106
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2018, 02:48:44 AM »
That article mentions nothing about anaphylactic shock from ingesting water or receiving a water based drip.

Offline jt512

  • Frequent Poster
  • ******
  • Posts: 2390
    • jt512
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2018, 04:16:07 AM »
That article mentions nothing about anaphylactic shock from ingesting water or receiving a water based drip.


The article zou posted says she has the exact condition that the wikipedia article is about.
Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof.

Offline Shrooborb

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 106
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2018, 01:42:02 PM »
That article mentions nothing about anaphylactic shock from ingesting water or receiving a water based drip.


The article zou posted says she has the exact condition that the wikipedia article is about.

Let's forget about the name of the condition because this isn't what I'm talking about.

We're assessing her specific case.

Why did she suffer an extreme whole body reaction from getting a drip that was 'water based'?

A drip is having a needle inserted into your vein and water goes into your veins, bypassing the skin.

So why did she still have a systematic reaction?

Her case is not limited to just her skin but she has life threatening internal body reactions when she ingests water.

Bolded for emphasis.

Offline SkeptiQueer

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 7736
  • DEEZ NUTZ
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2018, 03:53:28 PM »
That article mentions nothing about anaphylactic shock from ingesting water or receiving a water based drip.


The article zou posted says she has the exact condition that the wikipedia article is about.

Let's forget about the name of the condition because this isn't what I'm talking about.

We're assessing her specific case.

Why did she suffer an extreme whole body reaction from getting a drip that was 'water based'?

A drip is having a needle inserted into your vein and water goes into your veins, bypassing the skin.

So why did she still have a systematic reaction?

Her case is not limited to just her skin but she has life threatening internal body reactions when she ingests water.

Bolded for emphasis.

Do you have a medical report or case study for the above that isn't a tabloid reporting?
HIISSSSSSSS

Offline amysrevenge

  • Baseball-Cap-Beard-Baby Guy
  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5950
  • The Warhammeriest
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2018, 03:56:21 PM »
That article mentions nothing about anaphylactic shock from ingesting water or receiving a water based drip.


The article zou posted says she has the exact condition that the wikipedia article is about.

Let's forget about the name of the condition because this isn't what I'm talking about.

We're assessing her specific case.

Why did she suffer an extreme whole body reaction from getting a drip that was 'water based'?

A drip is having a needle inserted into your vein and water goes into your veins, bypassing the skin.

So why did she still have a systematic reaction?

Her case is not limited to just her skin but she has life threatening internal body reactions when she ingests water.

Bolded for emphasis.

I feel like you are fishing for something very specific from us here.  Why not say explicitly what the conclusion is that you've already drawn?
Big Mike
Grande Prairie AB Canada

Online John Albert

  • Stopped Going Outside
  • *******
  • Posts: 5931
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2018, 04:47:50 PM »
Why did she suffer an extreme whole body reaction from getting a drip that was 'water based'?

A drip is having a needle inserted into your vein and water goes into your veins, bypassing the skin.

So why did she still have a systematic reaction?

I don't know, but it seems silly to presume water as the cause of the reaction, given that human blood itself is something like 50% water.

Offline Shrooborb

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 106
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2018, 06:55:20 AM »
Why did she suffer an extreme whole body reaction from getting a drip that was 'water based'?

A drip is having a needle inserted into your vein and water goes into your veins, bypassing the skin.

So why did she still have a systematic reaction?

I don't know, but it seems silly to presume water as the cause of the reaction, given that human blood itself is something like 50% water.

Someone on Reddit said this and he got mostly downvotes, someone else replied and said 50% makes a big difference and her blood wouldn't trigger a reaction because the water is mixed in with other stuff, which makes it not water anymore.

Offline Calinthalus

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 6236
    • My Page
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2018, 07:38:11 AM »
Why did she suffer an extreme whole body reaction from getting a drip that was 'water based'?

A drip is having a needle inserted into your vein and water goes into your veins, bypassing the skin.

So why did she still have a systematic reaction?

I don't know, but it seems silly to presume water as the cause of the reaction, given that human blood itself is something like 50% water.

Someone on Reddit said this and he got mostly downvotes, someone else replied and said 50% makes a big difference and her blood wouldn't trigger a reaction because the water is mixed in with other stuff, which makes it not water anymore.
As soon as you add a water drip it is now "mixed with other stuff"....like blood.  It's not like it goes through your system as a big chunk of pure water with blood on each side.


If the water molecule cases an actual allergic reaction, 50% is plenty for that reaction to come about.  People with a peanut allergy can just catch a whiff of peanut dust and have a reaction...how many ppm do you think that is?
"I think computer viruses should count as life. Maybe it says something about human nature, that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. Talk about creating life in our own image."
--Stephen Hawking

Offline Shrooborb

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 106
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2018, 08:08:16 AM »
Why did she suffer an extreme whole body reaction from getting a drip that was 'water based'?

A drip is having a needle inserted into your vein and water goes into your veins, bypassing the skin.

So why did she still have a systematic reaction?

I don't know, but it seems silly to presume water as the cause of the reaction, given that human blood itself is something like 50% water.

Someone on Reddit said this and he got mostly downvotes, someone else replied and said 50% makes a big difference and her blood wouldn't trigger a reaction because the water is mixed in with other stuff, which makes it not water anymore.
As soon as you add a water drip it is now "mixed with other stuff"....like blood.  It's not like it goes through your system as a big chunk of pure water with blood on each side.


If the water molecule cases an actual allergic reaction, 50% is plenty for that reaction to come about.  People with a peanut allergy can just catch a whiff of peanut dust and have a reaction...how many ppm do you think that is?

Someone mentioned osmosis, where purer water would be able to 'diffuse' into the connective tissues where mast cells are (remember the receptors on mast cells are located outside of the cell, along its surface, so they'd only react to water outside of the cell) and trigger a reaction, but water in the blood wouldn't diffuse into tissues because it isn't pure water (by comparison).

When she had a drip, the drip was purer than her blood, so it diffused into her connective tissues where mast cells were now exposed to water.

Offline Calinthalus

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 6236
    • My Page
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2018, 08:32:58 AM »

Purer water does not diffuse any differently than mixed water.  We are talking about molecules here, there's no such thing as a pure vs. tainted water molecule.  There's only water molecules and PPM.  If you jack up the amount of water in your blood it could lead to capillary exchange (which goes on all the time anyway)...but that's how water is delivered throughout your system regardless of you getting a drip or not.  If she had never had capillary exchange before the drip she wouldn't currently be alive.  What about all the water currently stored in her fat cells?  When that moves in and out (gaining and losing weight) does she go into shock?


I understand you are leaning on a reddit thread for info here...and that might be part of your problem.  Crowd sourcing doesn't particularly work if the crowd isn't made up of experts.  I wouldn't go to my family reunion full of 80 year old rednecks and ask about how to solve the Travelling Salesman problem via evolutionary algorithms.
"I think computer viruses should count as life. Maybe it says something about human nature, that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. Talk about creating life in our own image."
--Stephen Hawking

Offline SkeptiQueer

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 7736
  • DEEZ NUTZ
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2018, 11:06:31 AM »
Why did she suffer an extreme whole body reaction from getting a drip that was 'water based'?

A drip is having a needle inserted into your vein and water goes into your veins, bypassing the skin.

So why did she still have a systematic reaction?

I don't know, but it seems silly to presume water as the cause of the reaction, given that human blood itself is something like 50% water.

Someone on Reddit said this and he got mostly downvotes, someone else replied and said 50% makes a big difference and her blood wouldn't trigger a reaction because the water is mixed in with other stuff, which makes it not water anymore.
As soon as you add a water drip it is now "mixed with other stuff"....like blood.  It's not like it goes through your system as a big chunk of pure water with blood on each side.


If the water molecule cases an actual allergic reaction, 50% is plenty for that reaction to come about.  People with a peanut allergy can just catch a whiff of peanut dust and have a reaction...how many ppm do you think that is?

Someone mentioned osmosis, where purer water would be able to 'diffuse' into the connective tissues where mast cells are (remember the receptors on mast cells are located outside of the cell, along its surface, so they'd only react to water outside of the cell) and trigger a reaction, but water in the blood wouldn't diffuse into tissues because it isn't pure water (by comparison).

When she had a drip, the drip was purer than her blood, so it diffused into her connective tissues where mast cells were now exposed to water.

That is not how blood works and not how water works. When an IV solution is put into the bloodstream the liquid (at least .9% saline, plus lactated ringers or medicine) mixes with the blood plasma instantly and becomes part of it. Plasma is just water with didsooved proteins carrying other chemicals around the body. The blood plasma will just diffuse the solution into itself and then the water in the solution becumrs part if the blood, no more or less "pure" than the blood itself.

Trying to figure out how an unlikely thing happened comes second. First we still need to prove that it even happened, and so far we haven't done that.
HIISSSSSSSS

Offline Shrooborb

  • Not Enough Spare Time
  • **
  • Posts: 106
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2018, 11:15:33 AM »
Quote

That is not how blood works and not how water works. When an IV solution is put into the bloodstream the liquid (at least .9% saline, plus lactated ringers or medicine) mixes with the blood plasma instantly and becomes part of it. Plasma is just water with didsooved proteins carrying other chemicals around the body. The blood plasma will just diffuse the solution into itself and then the water in the solution becumrs part if the blood, no more or less "pure" than the blood itself.

Trying to figure out how an unlikely thing happened comes second. First we still need to prove that it even happened, and so far we haven't done that.

Except immunologists have seen this girl and concluded she's allergic to the H2O molecule.

Quoting from one of the articles on this girl -  (this one to be exact https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JUST+ONE+CUP+OF+WATER+COULD+KILL+LITTLE+HEIDI%3B+Girl%27s+deadly+allergy...-a061152595 )

''Heidi recently had an emergency operation to remove her appendix. Surgeons at Shrewsbury Hospital had no experience of her condition. They contacted Birmingham City Hospital, where Heidi is a patient of allergy specialist Dr Dinakantha Kumaratne.

Wendy said: "The surgeons had to think very fast about what they were going to do. They were marvellous."

"I saw specialist after specialist who didn't know what was causing it." Then when Heidi started school, the doctor there was convinced - like Wendy and Dave - that Heidi's problem was water.

"That is how we eventually got the diagnosis when she was five," said Wendy.

I searched Dr Dinakantha Kumaratne, and I can confirm he's a real immunologist.

Offline Calinthalus

  • Too Much Spare Time
  • ********
  • Posts: 6236
    • My Page
Re: Is the water molecule really an allergen?
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2018, 11:39:17 AM »
Quote

That is not how blood works and not how water works. When an IV solution is put into the bloodstream the liquid (at least .9% saline, plus lactated ringers or medicine) mixes with the blood plasma instantly and becomes part of it. Plasma is just water with didsooved proteins carrying other chemicals around the body. The blood plasma will just diffuse the solution into itself and then the water in the solution becumrs part if the blood, no more or less "pure" than the blood itself.

Trying to figure out how an unlikely thing happened comes second. First we still need to prove that it even happened, and so far we haven't done that.

Except immunologists have seen this girl and concluded she's allergic to the H2O molecule.

Quoting from one of the articles on this girl -  (this one to be exact https://www.thefreelibrary.com/JUST+ONE+CUP+OF+WATER+COULD+KILL+LITTLE+HEIDI%3B+Girl%27s+deadly+allergy...-a061152595 )

''Heidi recently had an emergency operation to remove her appendix. Surgeons at Shrewsbury Hospital had no experience of her condition. They contacted Birmingham City Hospital, where Heidi is a patient of allergy specialist Dr Dinakantha Kumaratne.

Wendy said: "The surgeons had to think very fast about what they were going to do. They were marvellous."

"I saw specialist after specialist who didn't know what was causing it." Then when Heidi started school, the doctor there was convinced - like Wendy and Dave - that Heidi's problem was water.

"That is how we eventually got the diagnosis when she was five," said Wendy.

I searched Dr Dinakantha Kumaratne, and I can confirm he's a real immunologist.
https://www.swbh.nhs.uk/services/immunology-and-allergy/ is the immunology department for Birmingham City Hospital.  Name doesn't appear.
"I think computer viruses should count as life. Maybe it says something about human nature, that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. Talk about creating life in our own image."
--Stephen Hawking