Author Topic: Wansink.  (Read 2404 times)

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Offline lonely moa

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"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Wansink.
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2018, 03:28:23 PM »
You could start by saying a little bit about what wansink is. 

Online bachfiend

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Re: Wansink.
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2018, 04:22:52 PM »
Wow. Need I say more?

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/9/19/17879102/brian-wansink-cornell-food-brand-lab-retractions-jama

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-teicholz-wansink-dietary-guidelines-20181009-story.html

Yes, it’s an indictment of almost all diet and nutrition ‘research’, including the low carbohydrate/high fat ketogenic diet crowd, who proselytise for their favoured diet with short term studies of a few months showing slightly greater weight loss in the obese - who are only losing a few kgs - along with anecdotes of people being on a ketogenic diet for a few years and being able to lose an impressive 30 kg (I can do anecdotes too).

What is needed are good long term observational studies of people who manage to keep to a particular diet for many years, with accurate recording of diet, morbidity and mortality.  We can argue about what it means when we’ve got the data, but it’s the only way of getting an indication of how diets work in the real world.

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Wansink.
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2018, 05:47:52 PM »
You could start by saying a little bit about what wansink is.

Sorry, but I thought he was well known...
"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: Wansink.
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2018, 07:06:13 PM »
You could start by saying a little bit about what wansink is.

Sorry, but I thought he was well known...

I knew who he is...

Mr. Dietary Guidelines. 
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just a guy who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Online bachfiend

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Re: Wansink.
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2018, 07:30:44 PM »
You could start by saying a little bit about what wansink is.

Sorry, but I thought he was well known...

I knew who he is...

Mr. Dietary Guidelines.

It shows how little you know about diet and nutrition.

He’s not ‘Mr Dietary Guidelines.’  His work was based on behavioural patterns in eating, including size of plates and distance from serving areas in ‘all you can eat’ restaurants in determining the amount of food eaten.  He had little or nothing to do with dietary guidelines on recommended foods.

His papers have been retracted because he tortured the data till they confessed, or he fabricated the data.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: Wansink.
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2018, 08:20:40 PM »
Maybe you should read up about him before you comment.

I’d suggest the two links in the OP for starters.

Then we can talk.


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and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just a guy who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Online bachfiend

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Re: Wansink.
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2018, 03:17:43 AM »
Maybe you should read up about him before you comment.

I’d suggest the two links in the OP for starters.

Then we can talk.


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I did read the two linked articles.  Did you?  Did you understand them?  Have you ever thought about getting some help in improving your reading comprehension?

Offline lonely moa

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Re: Wansink.
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2018, 03:19:20 AM »

What is needed are good long term observational studies of people who manage to keep to a particular diet for many years, with accurate recording of diet, morbidity and mortality. 

Fat chance, dude.  I'll go with relative clinical evidence and even realistic anecdotes before waiting for what you are asking for.... I'll be dead long before that happens.  Diabetes and dementia are not on my wish list.

I'll just pick what seems to work, that's been pretty good for this raging athlete so far. 

People like Fung and groups like Virta Health have a great track record for correcting metabolic disorders.  Paraphrasing Voltaire, Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.

"Pull the goalie", Malcolm Gladwell.

Online bachfiend

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Re: Wansink.
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2018, 04:15:45 AM »

What is needed are good long term observational studies of people who manage to keep to a particular diet for many years, with accurate recording of diet, morbidity and mortality. 

Fat chance, dude.  I'll go with relative clinical evidence and even realistic anecdotes before waiting for what you are asking for.... I'll be dead long before that happens.  Diabetes and dementia are not on my wish list.

I'll just pick what seems to work, that's been pretty good for this raging athlete so far. 

People like Fung and groups like Virta Health have a great track record for correcting metabolic disorders.  Paraphrasing Voltaire, Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.

Well, you don’t know what works.  You just have faith that what you’re doing works.  That’s your choice.  You can do whatever you want to.  What you can’t do is proscribe what other should do on the basis of what you think works.

And if you want to have the best chances of avoiding diabetes and dementia; avoid being overweight or obese, avoid being sedentary (exercise daily), and avoid excessive consumption of simple sugars.  The particular diet isn’t involved, unless you’re overweight, in which case the glycaemic score of your diet becomes a fourth weak factor (which is about the only time it’s useful to restrict carbohydrates).

Offline Ah.hell

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Re: Wansink.
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2018, 09:09:13 AM »
You could start by saying a little bit about what wansink is.

Sorry, but I thought he was well known...

I knew who he is...

Mr. Dietary Guidelines. 
Ah, seems like a guy who's famous among some circles, a bit like Dr. Novella.  Famous, among skeptics and perhaps Neurologists but not generally famous. 

Offline CarbShark

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Re: Wansink.
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2018, 10:54:43 AM »
You could start by saying a little bit about what wansink is.

Sorry, but I thought he was well known...

I knew who he is...

Mr. Dietary Guidelines. 
Ah, seems like a guy who's famous among some circles, a bit like Dr. Novella.  Famous, among skeptics and perhaps Neurologists but not generally famous.

You may not know him by his name but his research has appeared in mainstream media a lot.
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just a guy who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: Wansink.
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2018, 11:20:01 AM »
I knew who he is...

Mr. Dietary Guidelines.

It shows how little you know about diet and nutrition.

He’s not ‘Mr Dietary Guidelines.’  His work was based on behavioural patterns in eating, including size of plates and distance from serving areas in ‘all you can eat’ restaurants in determining the amount of food eaten.

Maybe you should read up about him before you comment.

I’d suggest the two links in the OP for starters.

Then we can talk.


I did read the two linked articles.  Did you?  Did you understand them?  Have you ever thought about getting some help in improving your reading comprehension?

This shit again. No, it's not me, it's you.

Quote
He’s not ‘Mr Dietary Guidelines.’  His work was based on behavioural patterns in eating, including size of plates and distance from serving areas in ‘all you can eat’ restaurants in determining the amount of food eaten.  He had little or nothing to do with dietary guidelines on recommended foods.

Here's what you missed when you read the links in the OP:

A top Cornell food researcher has had 13 studies retracted. That’s a lot. - Vox

Quote
He once led the USDA committee on dietary guidelines and influenced public policy.

Sloppy science bears substantial blame for Americans' bad eating habits

Quote
He had a central role in all our diets. From 2007 to 2010, he served as executive director of the U.S. government’s Dietary Guidelines, which set the standard for healthy eating for the nation. Under Wansink, the guidelines shifted to be ever-more based on the same type of easily manipulated, weak observational data he produced in his lab. A new iteration of the guidelines, under a different director, was issued in 2015, yet the reliance on weak data has remained the same.

And from his own CV

‎publications.dyson.cornell.edu/vita/Wansink-vita.pdf

Quote
2007-2009: USDA’s Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion – Executive Director
• Proposed the Half-Plate approach, which became MyPlate.gov
• Led the revision of the 2010 Dietary Guidelines for America
• Launched 4 new consumer tools (average of 750,000 web-page views/day) • Created the USDA Corporate Challenge and enlisted 102 partners
• Increased web-hits to MyPyramid.gov to 5.6 million/day (44% increase)
• Proposed and chartered the President’s Council for Family Nutrition

And the first paragraph of his wiki page.

Brian Wansink - Wikipedia
Quote
He is the former executive director of the USDA's Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion (CNPP) (2007–2009)

Quote
His papers have been retracted because he tortured the data till they confessed, or he fabricated the data.

That's true for a few of his papers, but is an understatement. He also copied data from other sources and encouraged researchers to engage in blatant p-hacking.

Here is an up to date (and probably growing) list from RW.

Retraction Watch Database

I think it's interesting that the Executive Director of the USDA’s Center for Nutrition Policy and Promotion, responsible for the USDA dietary guidelines, claims that he did not know what p-hacking was and is having papers retracted left and right because the data was being manipulated.

Is it possible to retract the USDA dietary guidelines?
and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just a guy who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

Offline jt512

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Re: Wansink.
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2018, 12:47:59 PM »
Nur dass ich nicht nur Katzen gemacht habe.

Offline CarbShark

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Re: Wansink.
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2018, 12:52:06 PM »
Wow. Need I say more?

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2018/9/19/17879102/brian-wansink-cornell-food-brand-lab-retractions-jama

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-teicholz-wansink-dietary-guidelines-20181009-story.html

Yes, it’s an indictment of almost all diet and nutrition ‘research’...

Oh, bullshit.  It's a guy who did what just about every social science research does: p-hack and HARK.


That plus copying data from other sources and making shit up. (I hope they don't all do that).

But you're right, to call this "an an indictment of almost all diet and nutrition ‘research’..." is complete and utter bullshit.

and Donald Trump is President of the United States.

I'm not a doctor, I'm just a guy who has done a ton of research into diet and nutrition.

 

personate-rain